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From: Adam Ritter <aritter@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	 Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>,
	Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Subject: [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:52:14 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKuKjyVxQGezxo-2-063oMavQhi6cTOPwPacmLGkSJQ488UA2w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKuKjyWDniyP503XSw8=tK9XQW-T58j+VD6ajXCxz=HihN93mQ@mail.gmail.com>

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I wouldn't mind having $5 of my money held at
Apple/Google/VISA/Mastercard/BitPay (and I wouldn't be sad of losing $5 if
any of these companies go bankrupt).
Actually I had in mind creating a centralized version of Bitcoin for
ultra-fast payments. With keeping all addresses on SSDs, asking for 1 cent
/ address month, 1 cent / transaction should be possible to reach even with
6x replication. Companies could compete in price as long as the API is
standardized. Automatic top-up should be simple as well.


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Adam Ritter <aritter@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Isn't a faster blockchain for transactions (maybe as a sidechain) solving
> > the problem? If there would be a safe way for 0-confirmation
> transactions,
> > the Bitcoin blockchain wouldn't even be needed.
>
> Large scale consensus can't generally provide instantly irreversible
> transactions directly: Increasing the block speed can't help past the
> point where the time starts getting close to the network diameter...
> you simply can't tell what a consensus of a group of nodes is until
> several times the light cone that includes all of them.  And if you
> start getting close to the limit you dilute the power working on the
> consensus and potentially make life easier for a large attacker.
>
> Maybe other chains with different parameters could achieve a different
> tradeoff which was better suited to low value retail transactions
> (e.g. where you want a soft confirmation fast). A choice of tradeoffs
> could be very useful, and maybe you can practically get close enough
> (e.g. would knowing you lost a zero-conf double spend within 30
> seconds 90% of the time be good enough?)... but I'm not aware of any
> silver bullet there which gives you something identical to what a
> centralized service can give you without invoking at least a little
> bit of centralization.
>

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-04-24 14:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-23  7:55 [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks Mike Hearn
2014-04-23  9:57 ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 11:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 11:39     ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 11:45       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 13:21         ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 13:31           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:21             ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 12:43 ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 12:51   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 14:52 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 15:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 17:19     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:47       ` Gavin Andresen
2014-04-23 17:49         ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:57           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:04             ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:15               ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:20                 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:37                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:49                     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 19:01                       ` Drak
2014-04-23 18:58                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 15:04 ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 15:09   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 15:38     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 16:04       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 16:19         ` Chris Pacia
2014-04-23 16:21         ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 16:33         ` Kevin
2014-04-24 11:22     ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 11:43       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:57         ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 14:28           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:37             ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 17:07               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-25  4:31             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 10:17               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-25 13:19                 ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 15:28                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-26 12:15                     ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27  1:42                       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-27 12:53                         ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27 14:31                           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-27 23:10                             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-28 21:41                           ` Adam Back
2014-04-29 14:13                             ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-29 14:21                               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-29 14:26                                 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 13:12                                   ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 13:55                                     ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 14:31                                       ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-29 19:29                               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-30 13:00                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 17:06                                 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-30 17:13                                   ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-30 14:08                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-23 15:28   ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 15:34 ` Kevin
2014-04-23 15:41   ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 15:55     ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:57 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:19   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 19:47     ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:59       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:24         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 20:37           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:44             ` Adam Ritter
2014-04-23 20:51               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:13                 ` Sergio Lerner
2014-04-24 15:34                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:53               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 21:23                 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 21:39                   ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 22:26                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-24  0:55                   ` Tom Harding
     [not found]                 ` <CAKuKjyWDniyP503XSw8=tK9XQW-T58j+VD6ajXCxz=HihN93mQ@mail.gmail.com>
2014-04-24 14:52                   ` Adam Ritter [this message]
2014-04-23 20:41         ` Daniel Krawisz
2014-04-23 22:06     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-24  7:58       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  8:19         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  8:39           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:25             ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  9:56               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:44                 ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 14:09                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 14:47                     ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 15:03                       ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 16:05                         ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 16:14                         ` Mike Hearn

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