From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FA8C83D for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:12:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-oi0-f42.google.com (mail-oi0-f42.google.com [209.85.218.42]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1438B11D for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:12:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by oiew67 with SMTP id w67so49092566oie.2 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=IZ3aNJJRTNHmlh/C6zkko3EfzEwnSesy5mV2u8F2v7s=; b=I7zYk0p6iNz10L+IrgKNLGrCpHcPMYLBX8EB0DqTnjPo4We3Av9b5jXICwshKo3Wy5 53Xaft/ALmisgHjyCXpf5j9mNpk3q+KZEjxmbQf1nddsvQr4rRk5mnWsWCOd12m6cOMu n0LxnCBiW5D0YMcX19XrPxJme8IeaQvukIY1DOkxxA3PqktOoGjSgK7H2mBF2st6vs97 g3tcWnAT6uY7/F1HyXvmt8n+OndsivM3z1zdS91fgNLZxJODJvv50ZAP9V7S780chTlq MTMvZ5NOGy3vhBbjw5jONSIeoOqyEgOUwv4aWI4h+bhXLzbqepoD8sKZW9RlMy+LD5WV /oog== X-Received: by 10.202.1.210 with SMTP id 201mr9346005oib.3.1440191576494; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.78.77 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:12:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0CC6B26F-AB95-423A-B6D3-5852BD2863AA@bitsofproof.com> References: <0CC6B26F-AB95-423A-B6D3-5852BD2863AA@bitsofproof.com> From: Sergio Demian Lerner Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:12:17 -0300 Message-ID: To: Tamas Blummer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1137c3905359f4051dd8bb88 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A solution to increase the incentive of running a node X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:12:57 -0000 --001a1137c3905359f4051dd8bb88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hector, I can only say 2 things in the brief time I have now: 1. There is a solution that I proposed for proving you own a copy of the block-chain. It's using aymmetric-time functions: https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/proof-of-local-blockchain-storage/ 2. I'm finishing a paper on a transaction system (DAGCoin) which relies on proof-of-work per transactions, and no per blocks. Actually it has no blocks. This has been explored in the past, but I came up with some basic ideas that make this work a few months ago. I will forward a draft to you while at the same time I try to analyze your proposal. Or I may publish the draft altogether. Best regards, Sergio On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Tamas Blummer via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Jameson, > > I like your thinking about the implicit reward of full nodes. It was not > perceived as sufficient by many, hence full node counts were falling. > > This might reverse now as the implicit value of validating yourself > however becomes higher in a heterogenous environment, that is if there are > hard forks in the wild. > > Actually pooled mining became an option through the homogenous nature of > the network. > > Tamas Blummer > > On Aug 19, 2015, at 13:42, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > The incentives for running a node may not be obvious to the average user, > but they are there. Rather than direct monetary incentives, they are > indirect. For one, it allows you to have a local copy of the blockchain > that you validated yourself - trustlessness is the entire point of this > system. Having local self-validated blockchain data is also essential for > any enterprise that needs to quickly access large volumes of it. The other > incentive is it supports the network. Users may feel that this is necessary > out of altruism or they may feel incentivized to protect their investments > in Bitcoin. > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a1137c3905359f4051dd8bb88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hector,
=C2=A0I can only say 2 things in the brief tim= e I have now:

1. There is a solution that I proposed for= proving you own a copy of the block-chain. It's using aymmetric-time f= unctions:

https://b= itslog.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/proof-of-local-blockchain-storage/
<= /div>

2. I'm finishing a paper on a transaction syst= em (DAGCoin) which relies on proof-of-work per transactions, and no per blo= cks. Actually it has no blocks.

This has been expl= ored in the past, but I came up with some basic ideas that make this work a= few months ago. I will forward a draft to you while at the same time I try= to analyze your proposal. Or I may publish the draft altogether.

Best regards,
=C2=A0Sergio





<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Fri, Aug 21, 20= 15 at 5:50 PM, Tamas Blummer via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin= -dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Jameson,
<= br>
I like your thinking about the implicit reward of full nodes.= It was not perceived as sufficient by many, hence full node counts were fa= lling.

This might reverse now as the implicit valu= e of validating yourself however becomes higher in a heterogenous environme= nt, that is if there are hard forks in the wild.

A= ctually pooled mining became an option through the homogenous nature of the= network.

Tamas Blummer

= On Aug 19, 2015, at 13:42, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lis= ts.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

The incentives for=20 running a node may not be obvious to the average user, but they are there. Rather than direct monetary incentives, they are indirect. For one, it=20 allows you to have a local copy of the blockchain that you=20 validated yourself - trustlessness is the entire point of this system.=20 Having local self-validated blockchain data is also essential for any=20 enterprise that needs to quickly access large volumes of it. The other=20 incentive is it supports the network. Users may feel that this is=20 necessary out of altruism or they may feel incentivized to protect their investments in Bitcoin.


_= ______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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