From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD32BCA4 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:02:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-lf0-f41.google.com (mail-lf0-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6C04403 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf0-f41.google.com with SMTP id f18so23296092lfg.8 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 06:02:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4CwFBC1SoZfblz27p8TjKhAO2Iu7Z6Jz1KMg24kBt8g=; b=Xfql1N05mFsrm0sYPT7FOFwSaHS9aHPGE4PM0h/Kj4pVgEM/XUkjwdnD+MNcr40E8B sw30zm4hjC39U/h7uhKkq+Fd/yHIq2NflLoUUxk+HCDRIGBQN8rc6OwKO6zuNmIS7PmS rNbczTqSDKDUOIheKuhCl1fNs2fMK/nWrro0FtAgNxnDRKnFEOqcwsrWw3LfCt9/nJxL nwF/PTgVD4EYbHAC3tfvEKzo7/vlHZfZXh9jwSItSYIizu0IuyN6nGOt2lLwLOwqhmrZ 6Tv+duIFB4atAoQI3zHq1n6fey3ZMgwcf6Nno8VLeLeUlrs4vLfHpRAAsDPGIKJbJ489 ZK1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4CwFBC1SoZfblz27p8TjKhAO2Iu7Z6Jz1KMg24kBt8g=; b=qYupX7QRiKM89NG6P8rLbBDiv5LVySPVF/YQu3c0M94quMjm1WJ/5OW4anEpS/T+o6 NcLLw9fMwu0gRDK901P7m4BjAP1eUZMa/xfvhZBCkOJqVGcRdWxpv/2lS8TXtF1Ur98G czangmvGNiPzQn7/DIqD+sxffypQrGJeb5q48kqAVZUPseaXcXy7E0qVZFBWhBqPtJ3m d6BO3KGg/OHs21pxckenUxBJMwsCisf0ha4CRh6iyJLP72+94KRHXify3fc/rle3FigM Xp8chOJpZwAi1VMgwmb9IpZY4p5ajzA2ZyEeZwPgiEOAa0LWg+r903j+rGUkvAdKhcIU 2HFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ6FDAGqgcuON79CjcHWtcOwtLi630ac/3VtipF9Yk+gTRz4oeP 1kIBR5A+ohYxufM0tugGguDw+Yba7LsZ/zq+gBQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotWpcTYr9gPoi1oJIs63hwYSA29mOYmtGp4PF5Hn1Rr4Qg5bYkxO9oIc3d28huV+lmmK1JuUeWIaliMTxmW21Y= X-Received: by 10.25.86.17 with SMTP id k17mr1890398lfb.1.1513087333688; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 06:02:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.59.146 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 06:02:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5a2f9240.0abddf0a.0333.1139@mx.google.com> References: <201712111834.13672.luke@dashjr.org> <5a2f9240.0abddf0a.0333.1139@mx.google.com> From: Ricardo Filipe Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:02:12 +0000 Message-ID: To: Teweldemedhin Aberra Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:07:31 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP - Dead Man's Switch X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:02:16 -0000 You can do it on 2nd layer solutions such as the lightning network, with their own format. On the base layer you cannot do it without a hard fork, or it would undermine the invariants of bitcoin. 2017-12-12 8:24 GMT+00:00 Teweldemedhin Aberra : > How? > > > > From: Ricardo Filipe > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:44 AM > To: Teweldemedhin Aberra; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP - Dead Man's Switch > > > > yes > > > > 2017-12-12 1:10 GMT+00:00 Teweldemedhin Aberra via bitcoin-dev > > : > >> Hi, > >> The only solution other than Dead Man's Switch to avoid gradual loss > >> Bitcoins in transaction is increasing the divisibiliy of Bitcoins. Then > >> Bitcoin values will need integer of more than 64 bits. Could that be done > >> with soft fork? > >> > >> On Dec 11, 2017 9:42 PM, > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> You can implement this already, but only for ~1 year expirations. > >>> > >>> IF ELSE <1 year> CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY ENDIF > >>> > >>> Perhaps it would make sense to propose a flag extending the range of > >>> relative > >>> lock-times so you can do several years? > >>> > >>> Luke > >>> > >>> > >>> On Monday 11 December 2017 5:30:37 PM Teweldemedhin Aberra via >>> bitcoin-dev > >>> wrote: > >>> > It is estimated that about 4 million of the about 16.4 Bitcoins ever > >>> > mined > >>> > are lost forever because no one knows the private keys of some Bitcoin > >>> > addresses. This effectively mean there are actually only 14.4 million > >>> > Bitcoins in circulation even though 16.4 million are mined. There is no > >>> > way > >>> > of eliminating the human errors that cause these losses of Bitcoin from > >>> > circulation, while the number of Bitcoin that will ever be mined is > >>> > capped > >>> > at 21 million. This means the total number of Bitcoins that are in > >>> > circulation will eventually become zero, bringing the network to an >>> > end. > >>> > > >>> > The solution this BIP proposes is to implementing a dead man's switch >>> > to > >>> > Bitcoin addresses. The dead man's switch causes the Bitcoins assigned >>> > to > >>> > dormant addresses to automatically expire. A Bitcoin address is deemed > >>> > dormant if it is not used in transactions for some fixed length of >>> > time, > >>> > say ten years. > >>> > > >>> > The calculation of the miner's reward should take into account the > >>> > Bitcoins > >>> > that has expired. This means there is a possibility that miner's reward > >>> > can > >>> > increase if sufficient number of Bitcoins expire. > >>> > > >>> > Ref: > >>> > > >>> > http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > ign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. > >>> > www.avast.com > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > ign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > >>> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> bitcoin-dev mailing list > >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > >> > >