From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38405DCF for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:01:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mo.garage.hdemail.jp (mo.garage.hdemail.jp [46.51.242.127]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EF2A477 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:01:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ip-10-217-1-36.ap-northeast-1.compute.internal (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mo.garage.hdemail.jp (hde-mf-postfix) with SMTP id B7A5314C0D4 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:09 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from karljohan-alm@garage.co.jp) X-Received: from unknown (HELO mo.garage.hdemail.jp) (127.0.0.1) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2018 19:01:09 +0900 X-Received: from mo.garage.hdemail.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mo.garage.hdemail.jp (hde-ma-postfix) with ESMTP id ECC444C07A for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:07 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from karljohan-alm@garage.co.jp) Received: from gw17.oz.hdemail.jp (ip-10-126-128-85.ap-northeast-1.compute.internal [10.126.128.85]) by mo.garage.hdemail.jp (hde-mf-postfix) with ESMTP id D93FA14C0BF for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:07 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from karljohan-alm@garage.co.jp) X-Received: from mail-qt0-f198.google.com (lb05.oz.hdemail.jp [54.238.57.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gw17.oz.hdemail.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB66148C0EF for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:07 +0900 (JST) X-Received: by mail-qt0-f198.google.com with SMTP id l32so905422qtd.19 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LzFUvxj0w8sm3EwRAaPUYNUJ4KUI/KE3YuXD06SxgWE=; b=oxVPZr+0hcjF4U47VAnBTloJ61vN5i9GxZfurPb8YFfuqX45NzEXfZRT2paXxri01a Hicjbq1VEI+k2iN1LDdiDKiMY+Kos1PF/DGWJv96gNLwrfKmxsfGmn9FgxPcoJvJwwyH 36Z9qVgpfZ4PUqkc/AJj15dmC07OLTV/qxInWf5BQK/wORWJdI3EwfKu1MXdcnd+BTEs TPndT+k6one4hflRNmNTyO2RnxLa205ASCNhJf+xV/FnEs8zRBv+p3wVrPeJrNZpQRXJ R0l8SgGoZXQhDjQ+5X5ax+Z/mgmvK2gyTPp2G48OqomWQ+hNj4Fhz4O0Nok/emWB0EiZ nnnA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCsTGqZbVPj2uYeEehjpY1U3o7gGGEoAxONYnTjU9jZAwgiiAB1 fv5/+WtjMrKz9yopwq9QY4mex6TT4xQaiI3M0Jp6qtBao8wLEXzvIN7hobeWjxe63bOuraha62d fGxY671NTycHfmgVI59wEaYiYjFmMsCFo9hh221kYXI9lhxWza1ZWaMi7r6IJnfcxs4fnCaDdjn VqR4odUsKwPUm6AQKOlN5hQ08b5DA+JwsVo/3icJNx+vyBeAhHdqVU74KL4G3lcF1J34ZUrh0M1 94JQTHugT4gzEDrDHWB/aWQSMZID5Q3OqmZb26fh84IkWjUisuI19zICitEJImpU8UKR3a0sudg 0KjSCe0UGXBPo0SNe61QbhVbBds= X-Received: by 10.55.21.27 with SMTP id f27mr5915947qkh.252.1523440866068; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:01:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+ngekSbNv/hxaYgfHL3cJ/a7RFgKdQZ+gxnbf39UjpK9TIwFE+y61Eu5TaA43bpK52v5bizNJxYei+NGP8DVg= X-Received: by 10.55.21.27 with SMTP id f27mr5915917qkh.252.1523440865721; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:01:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.12.208.26 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:00:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180411075225.GG20665@savin.petertodd.org> <20180411093724.GA21441@savin.petertodd.org> From: Karl-Johan Alm Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:00:45 +0900 Message-ID: To: ZmnSCPxj Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Few questions regarding ListTransaction X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:01:12 -0000 Thanks for clarifying! On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:48 PM, ZmnSCPxj wrote: > Good morning Karl-Johan Alm, > > To clarify: > > Nothing prevents a miner from completely ignoring nSequence when putting = transactions in blocks. > > Unconfirmed transactions are, by definition, not recorded in blocks. So = if there is a transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 1000 satoshi, and ano= ther conflicting transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 100000000 satoshi,= miners can include the latter one even if the first one came to their know= ledge first, regardless nSequence. > > Thus, in the end "full replace-by-fee", where nSequence is IGNORED for pu= rposes of replace-by-fee, is expected to become the norm, and we should rea= lly be designing our wallets and so on so that we only trust transactions t= hat have confirmations. > > The "nSequence=3D0xFFFFFFFF means opt-OUT of RBF" convention is only foll= owed by fullnodes running standard bitcoind. Nothing prevents miners from = running patched bitcoind that ignores this rule, and connecting with simila= r peers who also ignore this rule. > > Regards, > ZmnSCPxj > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original = Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 > > On April 11, 2018 5:37 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 05:10:43PM +0900, Karl-Johan Alm wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:52 PM, Peter Todd pete@petertodd.org wrote: >> > >> > > Or via full replace-by-fee, which appears to be used by a significan= t minority >> > > >> > > of miners: >> > >> > I was of the impression that final transactions (sequence=3D0xffffffff= ) >> > >> > cannot be RBF'd. >> >> My full-replace-by-fee tree ignores that. It also does preferential peer= ing to >> >> ensure it's well connected with likewise peers, and thus the whole netwo= rk. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------ >> >> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org >> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > >