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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-2d82a68c6besi1145639a91.1.2024.09.03.13.12.58 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36; Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-82a1b84e6e1so228805439f.3 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:6409:b0:82a:217c:eb94 with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-82a648f8970mr408406239f.13.1725394377989; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:12:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Antoine Riard Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 21:12:47 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Demonstrating Pinning Attacks under Real-World Conditions To: Peter Todd Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ff657206213caee3" X-Original-Sender: antoine.riard@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=cBdNiAw5; spf=pass (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antoine.riard@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) --000000000000ff657206213caee3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, so > please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if yo= u > accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a ver= y > redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is unlikely to > do any harm. > > It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. It > gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND offline > that's no big deal. > > That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have no right > to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during > testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make it > worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on > justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :) Many thanks Peter for that. No worries, I won't play with CPU or RAM, it's just all the transaction-relay and mempool logic that one can interfere with. I'll make you whole of the $2400 if the LND node goes down too hard, though I'm just looking for a node running on mainnet, for a pinning the attacker has two open to channels and re-balance the liquidity at its advantage a bit. I'll provide the liquidity by myself. If you have an on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll make = a $100 donation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice transaction...well for some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin no risk of being slashed by a justice transaction. Best, Antoine ots hash: 19d9b61ed5238e2922205a0a0194e0830b260a691f45b4189b1d145f72c9e031 Le mar. 3 sept. 2024 =C3=A0 13:58, Peter Todd a =C3=A9= crit : > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 02:10:15PM -0700, Antoine Riard wrote: > > My utmost pleasure to demonstrate some pinning attacks on nodes under > > real-world conditions. > > Antoine Riard: until Oct 1st, you have permission to test your attacks > against > my Lightning node running at: > > > 023345274dd80a01c0e80ec48928188783f9bc5281be8f5057c050492f10711a5b@alice.= opentimestamps.org:9735 > > That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, = so > please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if yo= u > accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a ver= y > redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is unlikel= y > to > do any harm. > > It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. = It > gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND > offline > that's no big deal. > > That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have no > right > to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during > testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make it > worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on > justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :) > > -- > https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BEM1ysYErpGneuP_d%2BMjhQcaG7d2_EtRm2WYGFfLYuBsA%40mail.g= mail.com. --000000000000ff657206213caee3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calen= dar, in production, so
> please don't do anything you expect to b= e CPU or RAM intensive. But if you
> accidentally take down the serve= r, not the end of the world: OTS is a very
> redundant protocol and o= ne calendar going down for a few hours is unlikely to
> do any harm.<= br>>
> It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and = $2000 inbound. It
> gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if yo= u manage to knock LND offline
> that's no big deal.
>
&= gt; That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that = I have no right
> to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expen= ses incurred by it during
> testing, and make a $100 net donation whe= n you're done testing to make it
> worthwhile for the OTS communi= ty. If you manage to lose more than that on
> justice transactions, I= 'll consider that a donation. :)

Many thanks Peter for that.
=
No worries, I won't play with CPU or RAM, it's just all the tra= nsaction-relay
and mempool logic that one can interfere with. I'll m= ake you whole of the $2400
if the LND node goes down too hard, though I&= #39;m just looking for a node running
on mainnet, for a pinning the atta= cker has two open to channels and re-balance
the liquidity at its advant= age a bit. I'll provide the liquidity by myself.

If you have an = on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll make a
$100 d= onation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice transaction...wellfor some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin n= o risk
of being slashed by a justice transaction.

Best,
Antoin= e
ots hash: 19d9b61ed5238e2922205a0a0194e0830b260a691f45b4189b1d145f72c9= e031

Le=C2=A0mar. 3 sept. 2024 =C3=A0=C2=A013:58, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2= =A0:
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 02:10:15PM -0700, An= toine Riard wrote:
> My utmost pleasure to demonstrate some pinning attacks on nodes under =
> real-world conditions.

Antoine Riard: until Oct 1st, you have permission to test your attacks agai= nst
my Lightning node running at:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 023345274dd80a01c0e80ec48928188783f9bc5281be8f5057c050492f= 10711a5b@alice.opentimestamps.org:9735

That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, so=
please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if = you
accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a very<= br> redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is unlikely = to
do any harm.

It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. It=
gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND offl= ine
that's no big deal.

That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I ha= ve no right
to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it durin= g
testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make = it
worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :)

--
http= s://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

--
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--000000000000ff657206213caee3--