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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 41be03b00d2f7-7b76036f523si55161a12.0.2024.08.01.17.12.55 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2024 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of keagan.mcclelland@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36; Received: by mail-qv1-xf36.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6b796667348so24706476d6.0 for ; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:10cc:b0:6b7:9a0a:33db with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6bb91ea64f9mr56668766d6.23.1722557574453; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 17:12:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6512db18-bd15-462e-92fd-7549b5e885e7n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <6512db18-bd15-462e-92fd-7549b5e885e7n@googlegroups.com> From: Keagan McClelland Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2024 17:12:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] HODL Tax Proposal To: Richard Greaser Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054a232061ea83093" X-Original-Sender: keagan.mcclelland@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=OmKSgx5i; spf=pass (google.com: domain of keagan.mcclelland@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=keagan.mcclelland@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000054a232061ea83093 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is never going to happen. While demurrage has been proposed before and may ultimately be a consideration that the Bitcoin users want to ensure that costs are borne fairly by the different use cases, this mechanism is somewhat laughable. The proposal you present also seems to reflect a deep misunderstanding of how the Bitcoin protocol works: 1. Self assigning a bip number defies the bip assignment process and claims a level of legitimacy that this proposal does not have. 2. Bitcoin for the most part does not really understand "days". There is a timestamping mechanism that is used to reconcile difficulty adjustment periods with the targeted time, but this is not something that can be more widely used. 3. The way that "balances" are tracked and audited by Bitcoin nodes does not lend itself easily to being just "deducted from" 4. You cannot "automatically deduct" a fee from an "address". Addresses don't technically exist at the protocol level. 5. Miners do not "contribute proportionally" to computational work of finding a block. There's the winner, and then everyone else. 6. Bitcoin cannot and will not make any legal or jurisdictional considerations whatsoever when considering design choices. 7. Dennis Porter is irrelevant and does not have any authority to grant or withhold "permission" 8. This proposal, like all demurrage proposals, clearly has negative tradeoffs to be considered. 9. Centrally planning the price and inactivity period of demurrage is antithetical to Bitcoin's decentralized market design mechanisms in use thus far. Stick to journalism. Maybe learn about Bitcoin a bit before trying to extract the wealth of savers. Keags On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 2:13=E2=80=AFPM Richard Greaser wrote: > Hi everyone, > > It has become apparent to me that there is an issue where users of the > network holding their coins, are not adding value to the network. > > As miners continue to get squeezed post halving, they would benefit > tremendously from fees being taken from individuals refusing to move thei= r > coins, providing increased security to the network. > > I have written out a proposal more in depth and is attached below. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6512db18-bd15-462e-92fd-7549= b5e885e7n%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/CALeFGL0jBUhwmgE3CJ1Sv_UfQHeGq6madh1HQo2DKUek%2BpUpnw%40mail.gma= il.com. --00000000000054a232061ea83093 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is never going to happen.

While de= murrage has been proposed before and may ultimately be a consideration that= the Bitcoin users want to ensure that costs are borne fairly by the differ= ent use cases, this mechanism is somewhat laughable.

The proposal you present also seems to reflect a deep misunderstanding o= f how the Bitcoin protocol works:
1. Self assigning a bip number = defies the bip assignment process and claims a level of legitimacy that thi= s proposal does not have.
2. Bitcoin for the most part does not r= eally understand "days". There is a timestamping mechanism that i= s used to reconcile difficulty adjustment periods with the targeted time, b= ut this is not something that can be more widely used.
3. The way= that "balances" are tracked and audited by Bitcoin nodes does no= t lend itself easily to being just "deducted from"
4. Y= ou cannot "automatically deduct" a fee from an "address"= ;. Addresses don't technically exist at the protocol level.
5= . Miners do not "contribute proportionally" to computational work= of finding a block. There's the winner, and then everyone else.
<= div>6. Bitcoin cannot and will not make any legal or jurisdictional conside= rations whatsoever when considering design choices.
7. Dennis Por= ter is irrelevant and does not have any authority to grant or withhold=C2= =A0"permission"
8. This proposal, like all demurrage pr= oposals, clearly has negative tradeoffs to be considered.
9. Cent= rally planning the price and inactivity period of demurrage is antithetical= to Bitcoin's decentralized=C2=A0market design mechanisms in use thus f= ar.

Stick to journalism. Maybe learn about Bitcoin= a bit before trying to extract the wealth of savers.

<= div>Keags
On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 2:13=E2=80=AFPM Richard Greaser <= thebitcoinbugle@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
Hi ev= eryone,=C2=A0

It has become apparent to me that there is= an issue where users of the network holding their coins, are not adding va= lue to the network.

As miners continue to get squeezed p= ost halving, they would benefit tremendously from fees being taken from ind= ividuals refusing to move their coins, providing increased security to the = network.=C2=A0

I have written out a proposal more in depth and is at= tached below.=C2=A0

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