From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39C5C0032 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA3781458 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:03:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org AEA3781458 Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 header.b=OtnZUkcs X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQJC-y-8Ot1I for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:03:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2e]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 058538144D for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:03:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org 058538144D Received: by mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4abe6a78ab2so2256098e0c.0 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:03:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699391001; x=1699995801; darn=lists.linuxfoundation.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CkSdbpX9veka264ShrYfBT7hmaKzaQWQyMmj5blhF2Q=; b=OtnZUkcs2M0LmwxyeU/k00ngDa0oe4KL5ZQYJH/RUQOSdkcGDfo+cO7MEgEURGlRzI 9KrwMQPPhDz3IscN5xs3cMOfojZQM9nwOjd4qodXoi8eD+LImQiA/BqIygvS8jc3S8UJ FGIbVDJpr7F3A6ckmwtQbVE/tZICnMaD9A8lTK8/kvLbVq7swegAkjivEMQ4iTENyP6v G/ZNokRRStRjBRCrOaXhbF4kYEoTsDBnjBH3I2lhmloCHGrzIqikU4aXecXnY1iggaQ5 GHhtECAf9OrlXj+XQWOBe46WZ305Ka6/ukVsy3ReomSvQ0jwXjOR/SroaKXorG7jRqbX FFBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699391001; x=1699995801; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=CkSdbpX9veka264ShrYfBT7hmaKzaQWQyMmj5blhF2Q=; b=wksv+nWhAUeVP3jowa2hfkvVjunLWGVoMTTpnGzmxdBMjmQeoU71rto0wTH82REZ9h D/0FhzEEVkuLzwqPa9q7pTb7u4jf3oXYTzHrCD9dfY/U6RM821wU4Z+Lze/VICGbEIAR +dZUx+re3tLYa3AgaKNsqscLP3OVvuOzaplTqqxJAJ/kP5Nrm9NjxMIZ8v8o9G2zTY6D wp0d6R4CNaCTx7Xy+vxw69z5CROK6+FqE85O9uaInl0kXGOHXz9fizVb5pKR1OwMa6o4 eoNHVgEsS+UpaJRjE7JcsgtuVhVDQRSeID3r7VkwreyQLQPUYvoDFVgCQbzemlUMup+z C9aA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzpujmZYmXwdDV8d9ePTNqxVSasnp1eCJtcDBYtHeSFYLjOtdz/ 9aX+7aWanPlbeJxk5F7koXwspfPuMBzyjRMllDY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEVnkiZKJ0b5ZltNsoG9Au0Vs88Ef0BOHXGj0D/lNwLDyomouHMGiCLOU/rxWywIWf4Q7SDbePB60LpecKtDK4= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:2902:0:b0:4ab:f53a:15c1 with SMTP id p2-20020a1f2902000000b004abf53a15c1mr9810431vkp.11.1699391000702; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:03:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Keagan McClelland Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 13:03:09 -0800 Message-ID: To: "David A. Harding" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ee75620609964c6e" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 22:47:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 21:03:23 -0000 --000000000000ee75620609964c6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also think that good archives are extremely important. Far more important than being a medium of discussion is capturing all of that discussion for posterity. An unbelievable amount of knowledge capital has been built up in the mailing list over the years and given that Bitcoin is a system that needs to survive complete turnover in its contributor base, it's of extreme importance that we have a system that can capture the archive. While Nostr might be good towards the end of being very resilient it isn't mature enough to have good UX's built up around it wherein people with a variety of backgrounds can engage it. Personally, I think the email UX leaves a lot to be desired but at least it's accessible to a lot of people. I don't think I can say the same for Nostr yet. I won't opine much further on the solution but I think the properties we need to solve for are: 1. Archive is effectively permanent 2. Accessible to a wide audience 3. Data format is not proprietary and isn't tied to the success or failure of a particular organization In principle I think that Nostr can offer a lot in the long term towards this goal, but it isn't really an immediate solution to this problem. Keags On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On 2023-11-07 05:37, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > What about [...] delvingbitcoin.org? > > I'm only willing to consider discussion groups that provide good > archives, so I think it's worth noting that James O'Beirne has written > code[1] and is currently maintaining a git repo[2] with a backup of > Delving Bitcoin discussion. See his post[3] for additional details. > > In addition to providing an archive, I currently find it to be nice way > to quickly skim all posts made to the forum since I last checked (plus I > see edits)[4]: > > $ cd delving-bitcoin-archive/ > $ git pull > $ git log -p archive/rendered-topics/ > > I think some technical discussions were already migrating to Delving > Bitcoin before the shutdown notice and I expect more discussions to move > there in the future even if the current mailing list is relocated to a > new platform. Knowing that discussions are archived in a way that I can > easily replicate was key to me feeling comfortable putting significant > time into reading and writing posts on Delving Bitcoin, so I wanted to > share that information here. > > -Dave > > [1] https://github.com/jamesob/discourse-archive > [2] https://github.com/jamesob/delving-bitcoin-archive > [3] https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/public-archive-for-delving-bitcoin/87/6 > [4] Plus every commit makes me laugh. James O'Beirne's commit robot is > called "jamesobot" > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --000000000000ee75620609964c6e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also think that good archives are extremely importa= nt. Far more important than being a medium of discussion is capturing all o= f that discussion for posterity. An unbelievable amount of knowledge capita= l has been built up in the mailing list over the years and given that Bitco= in is a system that needs to survive complete turnover in its contributor b= ase, it's of extreme importance that we have a system that can capture = the archive.

While Nostr might be good towards the= end of being very resilient it isn't mature enough to have good UX'= ;s built up around it wherein people with a variety of backgrounds can enga= ge it. Personally, I think the email UX leaves a lot to be desired but at l= east it's accessible to a lot of people. I don't think I can say th= e same for Nostr yet.

I won't opine much f= urther on the solution but I think the properties we need to solve for are:=

1. Archive is effectively permanent
2. = Accessible to a wide audience
3. Data format is not proprietary a= nd isn't tied to the success or failure of a particular organization

In principle I think that Nostr can offer a lot in t= he long term towards this goal, but it isn't really an immediate soluti= on to this problem.

Keags

On Tue, Nov 7, 2023= at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= rg> wrote:
delvingbitcoin.org?

I'm only willing to consider discussion groups that provide good
archives, so I think it's worth noting that James O'Beirne has writ= ten
code[1] and is currently maintaining a git repo[2] with a backup of
Delving Bitcoin discussion.=C2=A0 See his post[3] for additional details.
In addition to providing an archive, I currently find it to be nice way to quickly skim all posts made to the forum since I last checked (plus I see edits)[4]:

$ cd delving-bitcoin-archive/
$ git pull
$ git log -p archive/rendered-topics/

I think some technical discussions were already migrating to Delving
Bitcoin before the shutdown notice and I expect more discussions to move there in the future even if the current mailing list is relocated to a
new platform.=C2=A0 Knowing that discussions are archived in a way that I c= an
easily replicate was key to me feeling comfortable putting significant
time into reading and writing posts on Delving Bitcoin, so I wanted to
share that information here.

-Dave

[1] https://github.com/jamesob/discourse-archive
[2] https://github.com/jamesob/delving-bitcoin-arc= hive
[3] https://delvingbitcoin.org/t= /public-archive-for-delving-bitcoin/87/6
[4] Plus every commit makes me laugh.=C2=A0 James O'Beirne's commit= robot is
called "jamesobot"
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
--000000000000ee75620609964c6e--