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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6a1803df08f44-70ba9220586si6446006d6.7.2025.08.21.20.28.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Aug 2025 20:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of alicexbtong@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c; Received: by mail-ot1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-74381fbc6e3so844374a34.2 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2025 20:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctm04Xqy4kpWscq18aKbn+vFOBr5tOsv0IsUDzzLLVPObGlqHufqc+/VNUwiaA BDDp989teXfy5S9EBf6a9HCLGzB2RuT3kXrUvp32VEK20W/diVElWVSs4kIqGQ9t65zWzE+jJkR 6/ri1yWMPh4S4KD6AurQL82zmKx/JC1tGKfZVKZgeNcBuguEsliOum+LvqiG5mFkOjF35bsCIHT 9NYi/GZZlaxrjjVkf+FiL8h X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2126:b0:435:7256:3f8c with SMTP id 5614622812f47-43785363573mr1018540b6e.38.1755833323323; Thu, 21 Aug 2025 20:28:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "/dev /fd0" Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2025 08:58:32 +0530 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXzSrBdBB8HtKUARF0bg2fG1ejuVjpOGYUorPIgJYBNf2QIsb753GuRg7B0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Workshops and Activation for CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and CHECKSIGFROMSTACK To: Antoine Riard Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008586cf063cebcd29" X-Original-Sender: alicexbtong@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=TmJbdOrA; spf=pass (google.com: domain of alicexbtong@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=alicexbtong@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000008586cf063cebcd29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Antoine, > Why the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time reviewing more CTV code ? Some of them have reviewed CTV earlier in other pull requests and others could be application developers who are interested in the use cases. > https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer you the repo ownership if you wish so) Thanks for sharing the link. I found the [taproot workshops][0] repository useful as well. I will create a new repository for CTV-CSFS workshops, meetings etc. to document everything. Workshop #1 Time: 28 August 2025 15:00 UTC Channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat - Review and understand [BIP 119][1] - Create basic CTV transactions on signet [0]: https://github.com/bitcoinops/taproot-workshop [1]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0119.mediawiki /dev/fd0 floppy disk guy On Thu, Aug 21, 2025 at 5:37=E2=80=AFAM Antoine Riard wrote: > Hi Floppy, > > The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9. > > On this letter, I can count ~60 names. > > Since the time of publication (2 months after), only 5 people have put a > code review comment on #31989. > > Among the 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (average-gary + stuxto= ). > > Why the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time > reviewing more CTV code ? > > ... > > Now, of course anyone is free to patch CTV on top of knot and go to try > the activation run with that. > > Personally, I still think we should aim for more neutral consensus > development process... > > This was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primitives WG, done on a= n > open IRC chan. > > https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer > you the repo ownership if you wish so) > > Where rather to present a primitive proposal as a "done deal" from a "pow > wow" of experts, > the goal was to create a neutral online forum for discussion open to > anyone in the world > who self-estimate they qualify as an expert on bitcoin consensus...and > humbly trying to > do better than the mess of the 2015 - 2017 period w.r.t consensus changes= . > > Best, > Antoine > OTS hash: 0d3c23682b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36ccb6ca0fcef2556= b > > Le lundi 18 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /fd0 a =C3=A9crit = : > >> Hi everyone, >> >> IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat >> >> I [requested][0] the economic nodes to review different soft fork >> proposals and share their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four entries were add= ed >> to the [wiki][1] and nobody has any objections to the proposals. Some >> organizations do not want to publicly participate in this process to avo= id >> politics and drama. >> >> A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June 2025 by bitcoin developers to get mor= e >> core contributors involved in the review process. It was followed by a >> [proposal][3] that makes a few changes to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combin= es >> it with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, I don't like that TEMPLATEHASH is >> restricted to taproot and don't see anything wrong with >> CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY. However, other developers may disagree with me and >> have different opinion. I have created an IRC channel for workshops, >> meetings, activation, etc. >> >> We can finalize a meeting schedule so we can use the IRC channel to move >> closer to covenants activation on bitcoin. >> >> I think BIP 8 would be a better option for the next soft fork. >> [Previously][4], some suggestions were [rejected][5] because knots was n= ot >> used by a large number of users. However, things have changed since then >> and [~15%][6] of nodes use knots for bitcoin. >> >> [0]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ >> [1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support >> [2]: https://ctv-csfs.com/ >> [3]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ >> [4]: >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail= .com/ >> >> [5]: >> https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473= d05d634946b4/dev/fd0 >> [6]: https://bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot >> >> /dev/fd0 >> floppy disk guy >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/e0a46b30-e633-4f38-b737-a5f1= 973da901n%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CALiT-ZoNdW%3D1mdyjpy6zLgTNCJHL8fKt9svM_5GWi96HPsVQmA%40mail.gmail.com. --0000000000008586cf063cebcd29 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Antoine,

> =C2=A0Why the 58 other names on th= e letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time reviewing more CTV code ?
Some of them have reviewed CTV earlier in other pull requests and others = could be application developers who are interested in the use cases.
> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can tra= nsfer you the repo ownership if you wish so)

Thanks for sharing the = link. I found the [taproot workshops][0] repository useful as well. I will = create a new repository for CTV-CSFS workshops, meetings etc. to document e= verything.

Workshop #1

Time: 28 August 2025 15:00 UTC
Chan= nel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat

- Review and understand [BI= P 119][1]
- Create basic CTV transactions on signet

[0]: https://github.com/bitc= oinops/taproot-workshop
[1]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/ma= ster/bip-0119.mediawiki

/dev/fd0
floppy disk guy

On Thu, Aug 21, 2025 at 5:37=E2=80=AFAM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Floppy,
The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9.

On this letter, = I can count ~60 names.

Since the time of publication (2 months after= ), only 5 people have put a code review comment on #31989.

Among the= 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (average-gary + stuxto).

W= hy the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time revi= ewing more CTV code ?

...

Now, of course anyone is free to pa= tch CTV on top of knot and go to try the activation run with that.

P= ersonally, I still think we should aim for more neutral consensus developme= nt process...

This was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primi= tives WG, done on an open IRC chan.

https://github.co= m/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer you the repo o= wnership if you wish so)

Where rather to present a primitive proposa= l as a "done deal" from a "pow wow" of experts,
the = goal was to create a neutral online forum for discussion open to anyone in = the world
who self-estimate they qualify as an expert on bitcoin consens= us...and humbly trying to
do better than the mess of the 2015 - 2017 per= iod w.r.t consensus changes.

Best,
Antoine
OTS hash: 0d3c23682= b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36ccb6ca0fcef2556b

Le lundi 18 ao=C3= =BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /fd0 a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi everyone= ,

IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat

I [request= ed][0] the economic nodes to review different soft fork proposals and share= their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four entries were added to the [wiki][1] an= d nobody has any objections to the proposals. Some organizations do not wan= t to publicly participate in this process to avoid politics and drama.
<= br>A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June 2025 by bitcoin developers to get mor= e core contributors involved in the review process. It was followed by a [p= roposal][3] that makes a few changes to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combines it= with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, I don't like that TEMPLATEHASH is = restricted to taproot and don't see anything wrong with CHECKTEMPLATEVE= RIFY. However, other developers may disagree with me and have different opi= nion. I have created an IRC channel for workshops, meetings, activation, et= c.

We can finalize a meeting schedule so we can use the IRC channel= to move closer to covenants activation on bitcoin.

I think BIP 8 wo= uld be a better option for the next soft fork. [Previously][4], some sugges= tions were [rejected][5] because knots was not used by a large number of us= ers. However, things have changed since then and [~15%][6] of nodes use kno= ts for bitcoin.

[0]: https:/= /groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ
[1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support
[2]: https://c= tv-csfs.com/
[3]: https://gr= oups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ
[4]: https:/= /gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail.com/<= br>[5]: ht= tps://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473d05d6= 34946b4/dev/fd0
[6]:=C2=A0https://bitnodes= .io/nodes/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot

/dev/fd0
floppy disk gu= y

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