From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D63E29C for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:05:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0005145 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:05:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-f173.google.com ([209.85.223.173]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lkhla-1YvIxQ2irE-00aWme for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:05:52 +0200 Received: by iodt126 with SMTP id t126so125931461iod.2 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.15.209 with SMTP id 78mr15877799iop.51.1440345951932; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.66.101 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:05:51 -0700 Message-ID: From: Adam Back To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Jt3UA9qRDQnPz0/pEYB6Nz47FXlFqDF1PHu4H5LV3gk50C6YMIE eKpqe1w34uPUarxzO1LrKGJ8qM2rzAa3sTosVmIeN5ND9C222dctSnNpvNOk/16rHjDVIO7 owqZur+fpQv2/AYoNYKBekUgXHpWjERJxxAI0jo/0yCtYBak8KFb3DUNWusQVT7DMIlTcC5 kZ7UH+k2CTPdbAphuQRag== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ICPnhlnglb8=:X7QXCl00oHcHI3femaTVnH 05zT0ChWN7Q9mr4WgdWMgPdRgNgq8wAHkMGlnLoQVV1xqzgsn3FpX/62bIXkl5cXAO3hQ7vKJ Kt3MUqJrQTYapgwbZCTluhPz7mXSCrWaafMwaAjDJODlEuhyeXNy8hQDFoeDvimUz83sshgXV 3JZY/CtPUeNHTlhth5bTM22t1YguXNoRVazwdzqKk36F25YD7iu0EoYEKchm4fo82mF/xVCDc MRwXqDEZWRryRqu/GI0UP9XWQoUmcWCNbj9aJHVZmYN9fZQrITJgYaBDddFhFks6NuAIXkmmH rnAFLNEa/6YHQCQaA2JMT6mKZe4/szpWjg6rfhSPUFVeecP0uTAczqZEht06cGofi19s6EF40 w4b/I8F6/xqHisruL/T5AiF2WNNjMBMCky133C5jgccCS4jz+2VVGrykbcSBE9WydiBi3RXqq R81xX6CkUZ338mKx9yl9DCKX67tF2PYMRpYhBmQPtfE0zPQK1W0ZeRCY9PNyZwP0pClj9lrrV P1wXh6GswcLiTq3bpZ0ZZ0Snc4RY3Yw+nKkfiXetWDhlmvEnAffeIVOLTccIXWn0499V3tzQ7 9OHwGCfN+Gt+5QlnO3DIDDo9PqoEXDoFhPPUfSg/DaXUBJIHtn3x8nUYgACqMQ3rX4ZUnqrmM /b6/EQEy6tkbPcnRiuVMNKCXcOU4DnuJiR9xUwNnLVgtkQHGvTFaqTd1rFVn/voMVetAoAv0i 44Vp1LmjBOmTAAct X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 10X: Replace Transaction Fees with Data, Discussion Draft 0.2.9 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:05:55 -0000 Some comments: "(i) remove any possibility of free transactions unless associated with basic transaction data;" I believe it is not possible to prevent free transactions for the reason that people can pay out of band (via existing banking transfers to miners) or make payments to addresses belonging to miners (that are contingent on the requested user transaction being processed via input dependency) . I am not sure I fully understand the way you see monetisation working, and you do indicate this is quite far future what-if stage idea, and you do identify a conflict with fungibility - but I think this is probably quite badly in conflict with fungibility to the point of conflicting with many planned Bitcoin improvements? And mid term technical directions. I would say the long term idealised requirements are that the transaction itself would have cryptographic fungibility, and policy relating to identity for authorisation, approval in regulated transactions would take place at the payment protocol layer. The payment protocol is already seeing some use. Lightning protocol sees more of the data going point to point and so not broadcast nor visible for big data analytic monetisation. Adam On 22 August 2015 at 23:51, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wrote: > Again, did you got a bip number asigned or did you self-assigned it yours= elf? > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Ahmed Zsales via bitcoin-dev > wrote: >> Hello, >> >> In response to public and private comments and feedback, we have updated >> this working draft. >> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEbhrQ4ELzBOUVtOHJQdlhvUmc/view?usp=3D= sharing >> >> Update highlights: >> >> 1. Specific clarifications on replacing the Coinbase subsidy and >> supplementing and not replacing transaction fees. >> >> 2. Clarification on block chain overhead. The value of data mining is on= a >> bell curve, so year six data will be removed every year. >> >> 3. Added references to an ability to create global, national and regiona= l >> Bitcoin Price Indices for popular baskets of goods transacted with Bitco= in. >> >> 4. Added references for an ability to use structured block chain data fo= r >> Bitcoin capacity and fork planning. >> >> 5. Removed references to price speculation. >> >> 6. Added preferences for deployment dates of January 2017 or January 201= 8. >> >> 7. Moving towards BIP format after discussion and evaluation period. >> Technical content will increase in due course and discussion content wil= l be >> removed. >> >> Further views and feedback welcome. >> >> Regards, >> >> Ahmed >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Ahmed Zsales >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Here we propose a long-term solution to replace mining rewards and >>> transactions fees. >>> >>> BIP 104 is currently a discussion draft only. >>> >>> >>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEbhrQ4ELzBSXpoUjRkc01QUGc/view?usp= =3Dsharing >>> >>> Views and feedback welcome. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Ahmed >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev