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From: shymaa arafat <shymaa.arafat@gmail.com>
To: lightning-dev <lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Removing the Dust Limit
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 09:44:59 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAM98U8=NGcwoip5CVKrT2LNWjinCogxRjEYLxMtQ4-O+49wsLw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <MCYvJzqskIC56X-ylVCNgdaVk6SNnpCE6GgssXxK-znwwK4MoA41a2A-yNuCG8s99ll3h__YjCjBlP99A27Clbip-aYbF2ZwLpZ0SJT0j2U=@protonmail.com>

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The suggested idea I was replying to is to make all dust TXs invalid by
some nodes. I suggested a compromise by keeping them in secondary storage
for full nodes, and in a separate Merkle Tree for bridge servers.
-In bridge servers they won't increase any worstcase, on the contrary this
will enhance the performance even if slightly.
-In full nodes, and since they will usually appear in clusters, they will
be fetched rarely (either by a dust sweeping action, or a malicious
attacker)
In both cases as a batch
-To not exhaust the node with DoS(as the reply mentioned)one may think of
uploading the whole dust partition if they were called more than certain
threshold (say more than 1 Tx in a block)
-and then keep them there for "a while", but as a separate partition too to
exclude them from any caching mechanism after that block.
-The "while" could be a tuned parameter.
-Take care that the more dust is sweeped, the less dust to remain in the
UTXO set; as users are already much dis-incentivised to create more.
.
Thanks for allowing the reply

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021, 16:43 ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> > I don't know what brings up sorting here, unless as an example.
>
> Yes, it is an example: quicksort is bad for network-facing applications
> because its ***worst-case behavior*** is bad.
> Bitcoin is a network-facing application, and similarly, ***worst-case
> behavior*** being bad is something that would strongly discourage
> particular approaches.
> Your proposal risks bad ***worst-case behavior***.
>
> > Anyways, I was comparing to rejecting them completely, not to keeping
> them in one set. In addition, those dust sweep Transactions will probably
> be a dust sweep and thus contain so many inputs which "maybe" makes 1-one
> disk visit  to fetch all their hashes at once, 2-from a smaller subset with
> max size 5-10% the UTXO set, justifiable.
>
> Do not consider the ***average case*** where a block is composed of only a
> few dust sweep transactions and most transactions are normal,
> non-dust-sweep transactions.
>
> Instead, consider the ***worst case*** where ***all*** transactions in a
> block are dust sweep transactions, because that is what attackers will use.
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-10-08  7:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-08 18:52 [bitcoin-dev] Removing the Dust Limit Jeremy
2021-08-08 21:14 ` Matt Corallo
2021-08-08 21:41   ` Oleg Andreev
2021-08-08 21:51 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " David A. Harding
2021-08-08 22:46   ` Jeremy
2021-08-08 23:07   ` Jeremy
2021-09-30 22:07   ` Pieter Wuille
2021-10-01 13:40     ` Erik Aronesty
2021-10-07  4:52       ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-10-07  8:17         ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-10-07  8:34           ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-10-07 10:35             ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-10-07  9:13         ` shymaa arafat
2021-10-07 10:01           ` ZmnSCPxj
     [not found]             ` <CAM98U8kKud-7QoJKYd5o245o8vGeUD7YD2OnXF_QeKaO33dSTw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]               ` <MCYvJzqskIC56X-ylVCNgdaVk6SNnpCE6GgssXxK-znwwK4MoA41a2A-yNuCG8s99ll3h__YjCjBlP99A27Clbip-aYbF2ZwLpZ0SJT0j2U=@protonmail.com>
2021-10-08  7:44                 ` shymaa arafat [this message]
2021-10-08 10:38                   ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-10-08 22:47     ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-08-09 13:22 ` Antoine Riard
2021-08-10  0:30   ` Billy Tetrud
2021-08-10  5:04     ` Jeremy
2021-08-10  5:44       ` Billy Tetrud
2021-08-10 11:37         ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-08-10 18:39           ` Charlie Lee
2021-08-10  6:14   ` David A. Harding
2021-08-10 22:37     ` Antoine Riard
2021-08-11  0:46       ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-08-12 22:03       ` Anthony Towns
2021-08-20  4:51         ` Jeremy
2021-08-20  5:45           ` shymaa arafat
2021-08-21  3:10           ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-08-26 21:21             ` Billy Tetrud
2021-08-27  9:07               ` shymaa arafat
2021-08-30  3:31                 ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-08-18 19:06 shymaa arafat

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