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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-46fdefeecdesi1668871cf.0.2025.01.31.05.43.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Jan 2025 05:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gregtonoski@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36; Received: by mail-qv1-xf36.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6dd43b08674so16414026d6.3 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2025 05:43:11 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctlXy0G5hT3SJa4cXGG30rTMBTOF6+1IEEZUvh5KYY6KsavwJGjiFs5Xf+mxWA kMe1y9+RLAucb1FhvVZ+YlTcRcxZUL0pFZS9pdA3Gvks8TF4ewRj8jR/EQevzdQeHTQdJ3AaIto sbSEs/o15LUp6JFPWK0+GPJ5TNIR4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5913:b0:6d4:215d:91b5 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6e243c0f4f5mr147128826d6.11.1738330991291; Fri, 31 Jan 2025 05:43:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Tonoski Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:43:05 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZnlrQpYe9iJHevwG6CVQDJjuDVe3tqO9-ZIIo6dqjPyn80wUiTat-kElPk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Call for reconfiguration of nodes to relay transactions with fee-rates below 1 sat/vbyte To: Sjors Provoost Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: gregtonoski@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=WdkZcF7A; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gregtonoski@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gregtonoski@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) I agree that -incrementalrelayfee=3D0 (or whatever suits a node runner) would logically supplement the minrelaytxfee=3D0.00000001. I suppose that miners already use -blockmintxfee=3D0 or anything lower than the default value because there are transactions with fees as low as 0 (zero) in the blocks. I can't see how minrelaytxfee=3D0.00000001 could increase risk of DoS attack or make it significantly cheaper or more effective. There are the default 300MB size limit for mempool and 336 hours timeout for unconfirmed txs. They limit impact of a low fee-rate txs DoS attack making it ineffective. On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 1:59=E2=80=AFPM Sjors Provoost = wrote: > > If you want to go this route, you may also want to set -incrementalrelayf= ee. That way you can bump 0.001 =E1=B9=A9/vB to 0.002 =E1=B9=A9/vB, otherwi= se you'll have to go straight to 1.001 =E1=B9=A9/vB. > > In addition, you would need to convince at least one miner to configure a= matching -blockmintxfee, otherwise these low fee transactions remain stuck= in your mempool until expiration (or CPFP). > > Some background: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/120782/4948 > > A downside to consider is that it makes any potential mempool DoS attack = 1000x cheaper*, but I don't know if there are any to worry about. > > Comparison with historical minimum fee rates can be tricky, especially be= cause the lightning network wasn't around yet. There's now an increased inc= entive to knock out a full node if it's connected to a lightning node. So e= ven if there's no vulnerability to attack today, it's probably good to keep= fees somewhat high to ensure new attacks are expensive. > > - Sjors > > * =3D assuming the attack scales linear with the amount of transaction da= ta, and not e.g. quadratic or exponential > > > Op 31 jan 2025, om 09:49 heeft Greg Tonoski het= volgende geschreven: > > > > The minrelaytxfee default value of 1000/kvB (1 sat/vbyte) has been set > > in Bitcoin nodes since 2013 or earlier. In 2013, 1000 sats were priced > > at $0.01, today it is about 100 times more. Wouldn't you like to > > consider adjusting your node configuration and lower the hurdle, > > perhaps? I would suggest setting minrelaytxfee=3D0.00000001 (which > > translates to 0.001 sat/vbyte) as a rule of thumb. The value could be > > set in a bitcoin.conf file. There is negligible number of such > > reconfigured nodes relaying transactions with fee-rates below 1 > > sat/vbyte currently. > > > > There is the intention to unblock transactions with fee-rate below 1 > > sat/vbyte in Bitcoin. Probably consolidation and multisig types of > > transactions would benefit the most. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/A8F96312-613D-4090-B6C9-0A4C41418986%40sprovoost.nl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAMHHROwmm0_%2BAOcBHj6Qrf07HWxzK0%3Dioeqf6nRf1kAqQhf5wg%40mail.gmail.com.