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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 46e09a7af769-734f6b24065si1170943a34.3.2025.05.27.09.03.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 May 2025 09:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b; Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-234ade5a819so6612055ad.1 for ; Tue, 27 May 2025 09:03:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv2KlNvAYmiEsyxhcjoixX9OFXSTnSgWQYGBXg1XcIAqR0RKND9Qlu5QZObFo3 N5BEAhBifn9VEsiJXye7rmXTx/TrbVdf7RmD9tHNp+MkHUjBhjBBeGy+OdhJ8tLHiUOKGyJdd38 Vn2C0LQbbcwXiYjHjuofqOpEcd4VSs+sPL X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:52c6:b0:2ff:6488:e01c with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-311103c216bmr19385171a91.29.1748361790053; Tue, 27 May 2025 09:03:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Date: Tue, 27 May 2025 12:02:58 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFv72olpTABECK3gv1btMNtDRjXTyXKjG8kDmTZaza_hH9tIKUUYjtZuv7A Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Proposal to solve the spam war: configurable data blob relay policy To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Cc: Jonathan Voss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006f7535063620337e" X-Original-Sender: roconnor@blockstream.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@blockstream.com header.s=google header.b=cbkT5Msb; spf=pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roconnor@blockstream.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=blockstream.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com X-Original-From: "Russell O'Connor" Reply-To: "Russell O'Connor" Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000006f7535063620337e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:33=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Voss w= rote: > However, the recent discussion premised upon Citrea's Clementine Bridge > evidences primarily that the relaying capabilities of the Bitcoin network > itself are sufficiently useful for L2 designers that there is an incentiv= e > to bypass standardness restrictions for the sake of reliably promulgating > data -- at least in the case of Citrea, they say they need to quickly and > widely disseminate 140+ bytes of arbitrary ZKP data to recover from an > invalid protocol state, and the utility of that ZKP data very quickly > decreases after it has been confirmed and processed. Does your proposal actually solve this problem? Posting the 140 bytes of data to the blockchain works as a public bulletin board because the actual data within the block is what is ultimately guaranteed to be disseminated to all participants. With your proposal, a transaction with an OP_RETURN containing a hash of data could end up being mined without the relevant transaction ever even being relayed through the Bitcoin network. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAMZUoK%3Dmux6u%3Df_b0yLb6nvJp41H7iPg7G%2BdLO5xT94kbDybjQ%40mail.gmail.com. --0000000000006f7535063620337e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:33=E2=80=AFPM Jonat= han Voss <k98kurz= @gmail.com> wrote:
However, the recent discussion premised upon Citrea's Clemen= tine Bridge evidences primarily that the relaying capabilities of the Bitco= in network itself are sufficiently useful for L2 designers that there is an= incentive to bypass standardness restrictions for the sake of reliably pro= mulgating data -- at least in the case of Citrea, they say they need to qui= ckly and widely disseminate 140+ bytes of arbitrary ZKP data to recover fro= m an invalid protocol state, and the utility of that ZKP data very quickly = decreases after it has been confirmed and processed.

<= /div>Does your proposal actually solve this problem?=C2=A0 Posting the 140 = bytes of data to the blockchain works as a public bulletin board because th= e actual data within the block is what is ultimately guaranteed to be disse= minated to all participants.=C2=A0 With your proposal, a transaction with a= n OP_RETURN containing a hash of data could end up being mined without the = relevant transaction ever even being relayed through the Bitcoin network.

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