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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5614622812f47-401ec8ae2a7si360120b6e.1.2025.04.28.09.25.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::635; Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-227a8cdd241so69342155ad.3 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuk4qxVw4XLy94DWQMPu7/HPV0tc5/R1lrpqpCRai427sKG95TmuBwhOt/R1yQ BfSaubh71yN7HkcGA7t2UcfFPqzsp0EaFACpj96h4Da2rfXSh3y06oWL+1CRLv5JdK085j61Xtr DP0J8vEnlcLCr8BtqJ8PWq X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:cf0f:b0:224:910:23f0 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-22dbf634d89mr175335975ad.49.1745857520556; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:25:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 12:25:08 -0400 X-Gm-Features: ATxdqUHIwajO7_WdaCM-_SLsOlQM58k4iDUHREtZefgYQhuAoxxCb2McPtfGfno Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Standard Unstructured Annex To: Peter Todd Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005774c50633d921fc" X-Original-Sender: roconnor@blockstream.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@blockstream.com header.s=google header.b=NRNO7rym; spf=pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roconnor@blockstream.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=blockstream.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com X-Original-From: "Russell O'Connor" Reply-To: "Russell O'Connor" Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000005774c50633d921fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah nevermind, I get it now. The contrapositive of this proposed standardness rule is that if one annex is empty, then all annexes must be empty. Therefore if on participants signs an empty annex, then standardness would imply that all the annexes must be empty. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 12:13=E2=80=AFPM Russell O'Connor wrote: > Can you provide more details on how all inputs having an annex prevents > transaction pinning attacks in multi-party protocols? > > From my naive understanding, in multi-party protocols one party can grief > by inflating the weight of their annex and broadcast their heavier / > lower-fee rate version of the transaction, and having an annex in all > inputs does not help this because one party can still change their own > annex, resign, and broadcast their heavier transaction. > > However, I'm not up to date on the latest details about full RBF and > pinning attacks, so there is a good chance I'm missing something here. > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Peter Todd w= rote: > >> I'm working on adding support for the taproot annex to Libre Relay: >> >> >> https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin/commit/04c8e449a34e74e048bf5751d135= 92a22763ff7e >> >> I'm basing this on Joost Jager's pull-req: >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27926 >> >> Specifically, transactions containing taproot annexes will be standard >> if: >> >> 1) All non-empty annexes start with the byte 0x00, to distinguish them >> from consensus-relevant annexes. This ensures that any use of the >> annex will not conflict with future soft-forks that may assign >> meaning to the annex. >> >> 2) All inputs have an annex. This ensures that use of the annex is >> opt-in, preventing transaction pinning attacks in multi-party >> protocols. This requirement may be relaxed in the future, eg to allow >> spends of keyless outputs, and/or if RBF for witness-only >> replacements is implemented. >> >> An example of a transaction meeting these requirements is: >> >> >> 010000000001011a559447098aaa14dec0c62ea55f43f9ce6bda07d1759f11b634334ab9= da939b0000000000ffffffff010000000000000000076a05616e6e657802406840b6fa27a00= ba001cc92797ce4f3ab7b7a32c21d1fce49e893b42e506bd92e8db187966a84ef799915cf67= 1334cc59779915b192bfb66b2afcf384bb61d0f422500049276d20616e20616e6e657821204= 1726520796f7520616e20616e6e65783f0000000000 >> >> -- >> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/Z9tg-NbTNnYciSOh%40petertod= d.org >> . >> > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAMZUoKmu8NeFzjU1vuU6AmxZ0T7VnZ-s7rqsHaiZjmZrL3v5DQ%40mail.gmail.com. --0000000000005774c50633d921fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah nevermind, I get it now.

= The contrapositive of this proposed standardness rule is that if one annex = is empty, then all annexes must be empty.=C2=A0 Therefore if on participant= s signs an empty annex, then standardness would imply that all the annexes = must be empty.

On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 12:13=E2= =80=AFPM Russell O'Connor <roconnor@blockstream.com> wrote:
Can= you provide more details on how all inputs having an annex prevents transa= ction pinning attacks in multi-party protocols?

Fr= om my naive understanding, in multi-party protocols one party can grief by = inflating the weight of their annex and broadcast their heavier / lower-fee= rate version of the transaction, and having an annex in all inputs does no= t help this because one party can still change their own annex, resign, and= broadcast their heavier transaction.

However, I&#= 39;m not up to date on the latest details about full RBF and pinning attack= s, so there is a good chance I'm missing something here.

=
On W= ed, Mar 19, 2025 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
=
I'm working on adding= support for the taproot annex to Libre Relay:

https://github.c= om/petertodd/bitcoin/commit/04c8e449a34e74e048bf5751d13592a22763ff7e
I'm basing this on Joost Jager's pull-req: http= s://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27926

Specifically, transactions containing taproot annexes will be standard
if:

1) All non-empty annexes start with the byte 0x00, to distinguish them
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from consensus-relevant annexes. This ensures that any use of = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0annex will not conflict with future soft-forks that may assign=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0meaning to the annex.

2) All inputs have an annex. This ensures that use of the annex is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0opt-in, preventing transaction pinning attacks in multi-party<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0protocols. This requirement may be relaxed in the future, eg t= o allow
=C2=A0 =C2=A0spends of keyless outputs, and/or if RBF for witness-only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0replacements is implemented.

An example of a transaction meeting these requirements is:

010000000001011a559447098aaa14dec0c62ea55f43f9ce6bda07d1759f11b634334ab9da9= 39b0000000000ffffffff010000000000000000076a05616e6e657802406840b6fa27a00ba0= 01cc92797ce4f3ab7b7a32c21d1fce49e893b42e506bd92e8db187966a84ef799915cf67133= 4cc59779915b192bfb66b2afcf384bb61d0f422500049276d20616e20616e6e657821204172= 6520796f7520616e20616e6e65783f0000000000

--
http= s://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

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