From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CECCB89F for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2016 14:55:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ua0-f179.google.com (mail-ua0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56CE0198 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2016 14:55:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 31so27500721uao.0 for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2016 07:55:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=blockstream-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dSw3+elRDrES6nAN4tQBe/AQBsGy2WQ0dZrb9hzRlfA=; b=XNH7YgwkSHcmM2YjouR5mO873Ek9nXZHDvQyXDjb50So5xh4+U6T9xqwrAlnEHciRp NSuE+cGTZKbt54lNZ86lt4KmqwqP3zhFq4LRLkXY5hz5rf0pUrpi94Zm6RVaPE5Rsjlx TC9wN15eYhZ7i3G9rvVqor5gHyBXUVz5C3Ewyg3E2tyzNzrHf8nz50brBC/0Qp5gAJz5 1h5hD4qyxykLXzWXXZb+In068f1tRTHJM2+5Pbuip8jjVDvqPyxv5yZap3wM78UgdhA9 oNNUmXymevJLjgTbQLclkFVIVAFVPcgAhga4voeOlg5I1WR2iJLQwX0AnTYFUqCalCeb B4wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dSw3+elRDrES6nAN4tQBe/AQBsGy2WQ0dZrb9hzRlfA=; b=hzzV2ZjXr3RVZZPXhNw+1NpalfCCo0oAWw2QIRRsX3o5sP2P+zzd2KtdmBxa2juPM+ LUqlW7+niLkh/lJ9DzepFHFk4+q2637G/MyoZjssWC6gDtPm7KkI5d8q3MxwuD1VYEWv ua2Sh7JwG6V1BN1TlMMPnabG0b3MvbueBOjNF6svQrtOpZLjlhcU9clOdIVZ8seuu+Ye j1W9I5+qhEBeGPlBdKYhOnWOyaLBfXslUEaaLV1CQ2obYoi31Fgmq5mT23avw9K0z0Vn 3oONonfIZcRFJv1vyb4gel/PMDx9yqcRx7iTY5kBvpIxfAQI+TqKLgE1v7H60zX+yYYC 2vIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwO1NTV7u6jnItpS0vEzrxEF6AEAWj6WtolXVcaAkQo0+qLe68exIxKrwhU+BdmVATPS7BOgh3ia9T4G1fv6 X-Received: by 10.159.32.105 with SMTP id 96mr11274365uam.115.1473087331353; Mon, 05 Sep 2016 07:55:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.4.68 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:55:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1736097121.90204.1471369988809@privateemail.com> <201608161937.20748.luke@dashjr.org> <20160816194332.GA5888@fedora-21-dvm> From: "Russell O'Connor" Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 10:55:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: Pieter Wuille Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c03f16c1bd909053bc3df5b X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Sep 2016 14:56:32 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] New BIP: Dealing with OP_IF and OP_NOTIF malleability in P2WSH X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2016 14:55:32 -0000 --94eb2c03f16c1bd909053bc3df5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 For sake of example, suppose we have a marginal fee rate of 50 satoshis per byte. At that rate reducing the size of the witness data by 1 byte is approximately equivalent from a miner and relayer's perspective as a replace by fee that increases the fee by 50 satoshis. In both cases miners get an extra potential of 50 satoshis in revenue. So in this sense replacing witness data with smaller witness data can pay for its own relay cost as much as RBF can simply by requiring that the smaller witness be smaller enough to cover the same RBF threshold. On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Pieter Wuille wrote: > On Aug 17, 2016 00:36, "Russell O'Connor" wrote: > > > Can I already do something similar with replace by fee, or are there > limits on that? > > BIP125 and mempool eviction both require the replacing transaction to have > higher fee, to compensate for the cost of relaying the replaced > transaction(s). > > -- > Pieter > --94eb2c03f16c1bd909053bc3df5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For sake of example, suppose we have a marginal fee r= ate of 50 satoshis per byte.=C2=A0 At that rate reducing the size of the wi= tness data by 1 byte is approximately equivalent from a miner and relayer&#= 39;s perspective as a replace by fee that increases the fee by 50 satoshis.= =C2=A0 In both cases miners get an extra potential of 50 satoshis in revenu= e.

So in this sense replacing witness data with smaller w= itness data can pay for its own relay cost as much as RBF can simply by req= uiring that the smaller witness be smaller enough to cover the same RBF thr= eshold.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Pieter Wuille <<= a href=3D"mailto:pieter.wuille@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pieter.wuille@g= mail.com> wrote:

On Aug 17, 2016 00:36, "Russell O'Connor&q= uot; <rocon= nor@blockstream.io> wrote:

> Can I already do something similar with replace by fee,= or are there limits on that?

BIP125 and mempool eviction both require the replacin= g transaction to have higher fee, to compensate for the cost of relaying th= e replaced transaction(s).

--
Pieter


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