From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCDA110D5 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:40:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-oi0-f42.google.com (mail-oi0-f42.google.com [209.85.218.42]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AB09326 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f42.google.com with SMTP id a141-v6so20352532oii.8 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=b7/q6eMqWwikGX5hX6DOWaPgNhw/GnH1raIGRLurwdI=; b=N6vIhPBkr6ksfMbeVP5vk0ExnAxnq1+Y7pB7jSXXGVTYUG4mP9XIOBYUgrxUBCF00E mBzPojSsOZUtnlwyc15DLH3HqqjfsrbQA/7E0f/HMySaCcdliAVv8QLVO3nF5enpoM2x lvw1d7/L357GEDa5grJ+Czjm+k/QgOvomyYWCXxcN7ZNkVKOJv3Gh8CXb1QqYnUs3NZm qCd4WAsPb5KC4Vky05hjgf3CS1RPa5AU7FGePPty4gMcDaehuvHWsLnW/kIoxB+uKdvl pwqalIPGRN8RDLXV9ARX2i8CCN+d66geQ8Cr6GZai5zlLuQrXZ9awuP2JVg5W3tmS7Lh BLaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=b7/q6eMqWwikGX5hX6DOWaPgNhw/GnH1raIGRLurwdI=; b=kdWEJo4wZIE0+dU/LE/H4QtJ4Bn/m9MKgskZB8oMNRBOz2qDe+ryvO37lS7crP/5v6 6ofCrWFXNVgo4G7O9wCsmAL/otF9E/RkbL8YTv7vBZIVRhQwRDPz5BzZQUBcXPuXt22v 5X6tByx9aC59hz9wdRzTFdMWi7oWszGGArMVGRvG4yrk/NZf2jiFthzLq/rwX//Nw5Xe cAZ8I34+uVHHUVlZ53ctmWWzlmJNYlxKB1elk3txF3bzO4pvYQ9wsM8qDM1fD0x6sGFp COTQRC8j4iH5CaMOUrE3p2JDvxOQogQ/x3zNf4W/f1z7uv4vYghF/28FjHTGW7fFaXde 27FA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0VZWeeglNQ8Yu3PS/FkP8Goo4MJdDn9dE8/VMCB+NTul7AiVyq QzU/mihjsIP0jF1a87K27ilAwM8NCd46PyXVdrmWNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIyv8hEc7gz8eq9fpelraRa8wVztDJGjs75ZsRQmQ4KY522qY364ZocLVqGpfn4uZvH7y7IrxOQux9xtZkm/fE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:ac84:: with SMTP id v126-v6mr1411712oie.176.1528792830334; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 01:40:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0cc0a7249708ad26a7cbef702370b234.squirrel@boosthardware.com> In-Reply-To: <0cc0a7249708ad26a7cbef702370b234.squirrel@boosthardware.com> From: Kulpreet Singh Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 10:40:18 +0200 Message-ID: To: Patrick Shirkey , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000967183056e6dd11b" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 12:17:54 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why not archive the backend of Bitcoin blockchain? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:40:32 -0000 --000000000000967183056e6dd11b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Apologies for a noob question. But if I understand correctly, lightning nodes need to check if a counterparty is broadcasting an old channel state and in response broadcast a penalty/justice transaction. Does that mean lightning nodes only need to watch for transactions that come after the funding transaction? Is that the only reason lightning needs to run bitcoind with txindex? If that is the case, and a lightning node only needs to query transactions broadcast after the funding transaction, then a pruned bitcoind instance with txindex might be a bit handy. Also from [1] it seems that indexing pruned nodes is not supported because it doesn't make sense, not that it was infeasible. Now with the lightning requirements, does an indexed pruned node start to make sense? Once again, please forgive my naive understanding of some of the issues involved and thanks for your patience. Regards Kulpreet [1] https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/52889/bitcoin-core-txindex-vs-default-mode-vs-pruned-mode-in-depth#52894 On Thu, 10 May 2018, 14:47 Patrick Shirkey via bitcoin-dev, < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > On 3/17/18, someone posted on the Lightning-dev list, "Can I try > > Lightning without running a fully-fledged bitcoin block chain? (Yubin > > Ruan)." The inquirer was asking because he didn't have much space to > > store the entire blockchain on his laptop. > > > > I replied: > > > > "Developers, > > > > On THIS note and slightly off-topic but relevant, why can't chunks of > > blockchain peel off the backend periodically and be archived, say on > > minimum of 150 computers across 7 continents? > > > > It seems crazy to continue adding on to an increasingly long chain to > > infinity if the old chapters (i.e. more than, say, 2 years old) could be > > stored in an evenly distributed manner across the planet. The same 150 > > computers would not need to store every chapter either, just the index > > would need to be widely distributed in order to reconnect with a chapter > > if needed. Then maybe it is no longer a limitation in the future for > > people like Yubin. " > > > > It was suggested by a couple of lightning developers that I post this > > idea on the bitcoin-dev list. So, here I post :). > > > > You can already use the "prune" flag to get a snapshot of the blockchain > but it is incompatible with "txindex" and "rescan" so maybe that is and > issue for lightning nodes? > > > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --000000000000967183056e6dd11b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Apologies for a noob question.

But if I= understand correctly, lightning nodes need to check if a counterparty is b= roadcasting an old channel state and in response broadcast a penalty/justic= e transaction. Does that mean lightning nodes only need to watch for transa= ctions that come after the funding transaction? Is that the only reason lig= htning needs to run bitcoind with txindex?

If that is th= e case, and a lightning node only needs to query transactions broadcast aft= er the funding transaction, then a pruned bitcoind instance with txindex mi= ght be a bit handy.

Also from [1] it seems that in= dexing pruned nodes is not supported because it doesn't make sense, not= that it was infeasible. Now with the lightning requirements, does an index= ed pruned node start to make sense?

Once again, pl= ease forgive my naive understanding of some of the issues involved and than= ks for your patience.

Regards
Kulpreet



On Thu, 10 May 2018, 14:47 Patrick = Shirkey via bitcoin-dev, <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> = wrote:

> On 3/17/18, someone posted on the Lightning-dev list, "Can I try<= br> > Lightning without running a fully-fledged bitcoin block chain? (Yubin<= br> > Ruan)."=C2=A0 The inquirer was asking because he didn't have = much space to
> store the entire blockchain on his laptop.
>
> I replied:
>
> "Developers,
>
> On THIS note and slightly off-topic but relevant, why can't chunks= of
> blockchain peel off the backend periodically and be archived, say on > minimum of 150 computers across 7 continents?
>
> It seems crazy to continue adding on to an increasingly long chain to<= br> > infinity if the old chapters (i.e. more than, say, 2 years old) could = be
> stored in an evenly distributed manner across the planet. The same 150=
> computers would not need to store every chapter either, just the index=
> would need to be widely distributed in order to reconnect with a chapt= er
> if needed. Then maybe it is no longer a limitation in the future for > people like Yubin. "
>
> It was suggested by a couple of lightning developers that I post this<= br> > idea on the bitcoin-dev list.=C2=A0 So, here I post :).
>

You can already use the "prune" flag to get a snapshot of the blo= ckchain
but it is incompatible with "txindex" and "rescan" so m= aybe that is and
issue for lightning nodes?




--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware

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bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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