From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WYB70-0000oW-TW for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:17:34 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.49; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f49.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f49.google.com ([209.85.219.49]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WYB70-0004GN-31 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:17:34 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id o6so4133091oag.36 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 02:17:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.132.75 with SMTP id os11mr51525oeb.70.1397121448793; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 02:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.96.180 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 02:17:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <77889B25-03D6-4401-A5FE-432976951F55@bitsofproof.com> References: <53456B99.9010207@monetize.io> <00b77560-d7ed-4ed4-a4e5-eb1f00467a06@email.android.com> <0509477C-89F9-47C7-8820-29ACAD4A4A8E@bitsofproof.com> <534592E2.7040800@gmail.com> <5345986C.3040901@gmail.com> <77889B25-03D6-4401-A5FE-432976951F55@bitsofproof.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:17:28 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Rq06-ZHHi90a7Sjnn_tewovZ4ZE Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Tamas Blummer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b471e70a9dea704f6acafe4 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WYB70-0004GN-31 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:17:35 -0000 --047d7b471e70a9dea704f6acafe4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I find it is odd that we who hold the key to instant machine to machine > micro payments do not use it to incentivise committing resources to the > network. > It's not a new idea, obviously, but there are some practical consequences: 1) To pay a node for serving, you have to have bitcoins. To get bitcoins, you need to sync with the network via a node. Catch 22. 2) If some nodes choose to charge and others choose to not charge, a smart wallet will always use the free nodes. In the absence of any global load balancing algorithms, this would lead to the free nodes getting overloaded and collapsing whilst the for-pay nodes remain silent. 3) The only payment channel implementations today are bitcoinj's (Java) and one written by Jeff in Javascript. There are no C++ implementations. And as Matt and I can attest to, doing a real, solid, fully debugged implementation that's integrated into a real app is .... a lot of work. I still think the lowest hanging fruit is basic, boring optimisations rather than architectural rethinks. --047d7b471e70a9dea704f6acafe4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I find = it is odd that we who hold the key to instant machine to machine micro paym= ents do not use it to incentivise committing resources to the network.

It's not a new idea, obviously, = but there are some practical consequences:

1) To p= ay a node for serving, you have to have bitcoins. To get bitcoins, you need= to sync with the network via a node. Catch 22.

2) If some nodes choose to charge and others choose to = not charge, a smart wallet will always use the free nodes. In the absence o= f any global load balancing algorithms, this would lead to the free nodes g= etting overloaded and collapsing whilst the for-pay nodes remain silent.

3) The only payment channel implementations today are b= itcoinj's (Java) and one written by Jeff in Javascript. There are no C+= + implementations. And as Matt and I can attest to, doing a real, solid, fu= lly debugged implementation that's integrated into a real app is .... a= lot of work.

I still think the lowest hanging fruit is basic, boring= optimisations rather than architectural rethinks.
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