From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YJjN3-0003l0-AB for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:54:57 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 74.125.82.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.42; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-wg0-f42.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com ([74.125.82.42]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YJjN2-0000dR-26 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:54:57 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id x13so13735641wgg.1 for ; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.93.134 with SMTP id cu6mr7984583wjb.79.1423230890038; Fri, 06 Feb 2015 05:54:50 -0800 (PST) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.188.11 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 05:54:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54D482B8.9070108@voskuil.org> References: <544174F8.1050208@AndySchroder.com> <54D3FEE9.70502@AndySchroder.com> <54D40C7D.8090804@voskuil.org> <54D482B8.9070108@voskuil.org> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:54:49 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Naz19Oi0tjAgxi6VmlrLnvtAJfs Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Eric Voskuil Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb7092ca25c5e050e6bc354 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.0 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1YJjN2-0000dR-26 Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Andreas Schildbach Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Two Proposed BIPs - Bluetooth Communication and bitcoin: URI Scheme Improvements X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:54:57 -0000 --047d7bb7092ca25c5e050e6bc354 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 BLE meets a different use case than regular Bluetooth. BLE is designed to allow always-on broadcast "beacons" which are conceptually similar to NFC tags, with very low power requirements. The tradeoff for this ultra-low power consumption and always on nature is the same as with NFC tags: you get very little space for data, and they are essentially one way. That's why a common use case for it is to trigger some other mechanism like a classical Bluetooth socket or HTTPS connection. I think BLE has a role to play in Bitcoin payments, but probably not for actually transferring payment data. Rather, a merchant should be able to drop a BLE beacon in their shop, and then wallet apps can use that to learn where to download a payment request/upload a payment message. But the actual data transfer would still take place over Bluetooth, Wifi or the internet. That leads to the question of what the beacon broadcasts. A bitcoin URI is the obvious answer: the problem is a URI contains an address. No problem for the "throw money at a live performer" use case but a problem for the cafe use case. If we are willing to mandate BIP70 and remove the static address part from the URI the we get a "uri that points to a url" which is a bit inefficient but at least lets us distinguish bitcoin beacons from other kinds. That still leaves the fundamental question raised by the Airbitz spec - how does your wallet download the right payment request? Unfortunately that's a tough UI problem. I don't think comparing long hex strings manually is a good way to go. This seems less user friendly than a QR code. Once we solve that problem, how BLE beacons can trigger payments will all fall into place. The tech part isn't the hard part. --047d7bb7092ca25c5e050e6bc354 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BLE meets a different use case = than regular Bluetooth. BLE is designed to allow always-on broadcast "= beacons" which are conceptually similar to NFC tags, with very low pow= er requirements. The tradeoff for this ultra-low power consumption and alwa= ys on nature is the same as with NFC tags: you get very little space for da= ta, and they are essentially one way. That's why a common use case for = it is to trigger some other mechanism like a classical Bluetooth socket or = HTTPS connection.

I think BLE has a role to play in Bitcoin payments, but probabl= y not for actually transferring payment data. Rather, a merchant should be = able to drop a BLE beacon in their shop, and then wallet apps can use that = to learn where to download a payment request/upload a payment message. But = the actual data transfer would still take place over Bluetooth, Wifi or the= internet.

That leads to the question of what the beacon broadcasts. A bitcoin UR= I is the obvious answer: the problem is a URI contains an address. No probl= em for the "throw money at a live performer" use case but a probl= em for the cafe use case. If we are willing to mandate BIP70 and remove the= static address part from the URI the we get a "uri that points to a u= rl" which is a bit inefficient but at least lets us distinguish bitcoi= n beacons from other kinds. That still leaves the fundamental question rais= ed by the Airbitz spec - how does your wallet download the right payment re= quest?

Unfortunately that's a tough UI problem. I don't think comparing l= ong hex strings manually is a good way to go. This seems less user friendly= than a QR code.

Once we solve that problem, how BLE beacons can trigger payments= will all fall into place. The tech part isn't the hard part.
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