From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WXASz-0005np-P5 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:24:05 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.53; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f53.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.219.53]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WXASy-0005O2-GA for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:24:05 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id j17so6746638oag.12 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.76.194 with SMTP id m2mr7462043oew.47.1396880639106; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.96.180 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 16:23:59 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gpTq2HkiIqvFdEaDG89xi7MgVe0 Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Eric Martindale Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b33cea649a74d04f6749e28 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WXASy-0005O2-GA Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Andreas Schildbach Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:24:05 -0000 --047d7b33cea649a74d04f6749e28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Indeed, fully agreed. The only way to really make progress here is to make the UX of being your own bank not only as good as trusting a third party, but better. I've been encouraged by the rise of risk analysis services, but we need to integrate them into wallets more widely for them to have much impact. Otherwise people get to pick between a variety of wallets, none of which have *all* the features they want. And TREZOR is cool, albeit, something that's going to be for committed users only. On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Eric Martindale wrote: > We need to make it so mind-numbingly simple to "run Bitcoin correctly" > that the average user doesn't find reasons to do so in the course of normal > use. Right now, Coinbase and Bitstamp are winning in the user experience > battle, which technically endanger the user, and by proxy the Bitcoin > network. > > Multi-sig as a default is a start. It won't succeed unless the user > experience is simply better than trusted third parties, but we need to > start the education process with the very basic fundamental: trusting a > third-party with full access to your Bitcoin is just replacing one > centralized banking system with another. > > Eric Martindale > Developer Evangelist, BitPay > +1 (919) 374-2020 > On Apr 7, 2014 7:05 AM, "Mike Hearn" wrote: > >> My guess is that a large number of users have lost interest after they >>> lost their money in MtGox. The 24th of February coincides with the >>> "final" shutdown >> >> >> Sigh. It would not be surprising if MtGox has indeed dealt the community >> a critical blow in this regard. TX traffic is down since then too: >> >> >> https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= >> >> Judging from comments and the leaked user db, it seems a lot of well >> known people lost money there (not me fortunately). I wish I could say >> people have learned but from the size of the deposit base at Bitstamp they >> clearly have not. A lot of Bitcoin users don't seem to be ready to be their >> own bank, yet still want to own some on the assumption everyone else either >> is or soon will be. So it's really only a matter of time until something >> goes wrong with some large bitbank again, either Bitstamp or Coinbase. >> >> Some days I wonder if Bitcoin will be killed off by people who just >> refuse to use it properly before it ever gets a chance to shine. The >> general public doesn't distinguish between "Bitcoin users" who deposit with >> a third party and the real Bitcoin users who don't. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Put Bad Developers to Shame >> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration >> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment >> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> >> --047d7b33cea649a74d04f6749e28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Indeed, fully agreed. The only way to really make progress= here is to make the UX of being your own bank not only as good as trusting= a third party, but better.

I've been encouraged by = the rise of risk analysis services, but we need to integrate them into wall= ets more widely for them to have much impact. Otherwise people get to pick = between a variety of wallets, none of which have all=C2=A0the featur= es they want. And TREZOR is cool, albeit, something that's going to be = for committed users only.



On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Eric Martindale &= lt;eric@ericma= rtindale.com> wrote:

We need to make it so mind-nu= mbingly simple to "run Bitcoin correctly" that the average user d= oesn't find reasons to do so in the course of normal use.=C2=A0 Right n= ow, Coinbase and Bitstamp are winning in the user experience battle, which = technically endanger the user, and by proxy the Bitcoin network.

Multi-sig as a default is a start.=C2=A0 It won't succee= d unless the user experience is simply better than trusted third parties, b= ut we need to start the education process with the very basic fundamental: = trusting a third-party with full access to your Bitcoin is just replacing o= ne centralized banking system with another.

Eric Martindale
Developer Evangelist, BitPay
+1 (919) 374-2020

On Apr 7, 2= 014 7:05 AM, "Mike Hearn" <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
My guess is that a large number of users have lost interest after they
lost their money in MtGox. The 24th of February coincides with the
"final" shutdown

Sigh. It would n= ot be surprising if MtGox has indeed dealt the community a critical blow in= this regard. TX traffic is down since then too:


Judging from comments and the leaked user db, it seems = a lot of well known people lost money there =C2=A0 (not me fortunately). I = wish I could say people have learned but from the size of the deposit base = at Bitstamp they clearly have not. A lot of Bitcoin users don't seem to= be ready to be their own bank, yet still want to own some on the assumptio= n everyone else either is or soon will be. So it's really only a matter= of time until something goes wrong with some large bitbank again, either B= itstamp or Coinbase.

Some days I wonder if Bitcoin will be killed off by peo= ple who just refuse to use it properly before it ever gets a chance to shin= e. The general public doesn't distinguish between "Bitcoin users&q= uot; who deposit with a third party and the real Bitcoin users who don'= t.

-------------------------------------------= -----------------------------------
Put Bad Developers to Shame
Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
http:= //p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR
_________________________________= ______________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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