From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VQFGB-0002er-Hy for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:33:59 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.214.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.50; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-bk0-f50.google.com; Received: from mail-bk0-f50.google.com ([209.85.214.50]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VQFG9-0004Pu-Jo for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:33:59 +0000 Received: by mail-bk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id mz11so1585103bkb.23 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 04:33:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.69.12 with SMTP id x12mr13982900bki.12.1380454431009; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 04:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.237.74 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 04:33:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2c70dbfc173749cf4198c591f19a7d33@astutium.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 13:33:50 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -aumpNn1mnSZYOuKbQnSQIvK_Rg Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Melvin Carvalho Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132ec90fd713304e7841777 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.0 LOTS_OF_MONEY Huge... sums of money X-Headers-End: 1VQFG9-0004Pu-Jo Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] smart contracts -- possible use case? yes or no? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:33:59 -0000 --001a1132ec90fd713304e7841777 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 This kind of thing is better discussed in the dev forum of bitcointalk.org On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > > > > On 29 September 2013 04:28, Neil Fincham wrote: > >> I subscribe to this list so I can keep up-to date with bitcoin >> development, can we keep philosophy and tax evasion out of it? >> > > Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the use case clearly. It was not about > evasion, it was about voluntary donations going to the correct place, being > verified by an oracle. I dont wish to stray off topic, so I'll leave it at > that. > > >> >> Neil >> >> >> On 29 September 2013 09:15, wrote: >> >>> > But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in >>> > uncertain. Do we need to pay capital gains? Do we need to pay a >>> > sales taxs etc. etc. >>> >>> In most regions it's not only 'simple' but trivial - BTC is just >>> 'another currency' and accounted for exactly the same way - it doens't >>> matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig >>> Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ... >>> >>> > So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations >>> > to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers. >>> >>> You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I'd suggest stronger medication ... >>> >>> > However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations. >>> > Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent. >>> >>> 80% of 'donations' end up spent on 'adminsitration' and not what they >>> were donated for, this is a 'greed' issue not a 'currency' issue. >>> >>> > In the UK >>> > a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money >>> > was wisely spent. >>> >>> Tax isn't voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is well >>> spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82% >>> that pay it ;) >>> >>> > Can we fix it? >>> >>> First we kill all the politicians ... >>> >>> > So let's say I run a business and I make 1 million euros. I wish to >>> > donate 10% of my profits to society. But let's say I dont want that >>> > money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire >>> > de[department. >>> >>> So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up to >>> you ;) >>> >>> > At this point everyone wins. The business person is happy to make a >>> > contribution. The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue. The >>> > fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work. And >>> > everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way. >>> >>> Where does gov't come into this ? I think you're confusing 'tax' which >>> you have zero control over and 'donations' which you already have 100% >>> control over. >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> October Webinars: Code for Performance >>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. >>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most >>> from >>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >>> > >>> >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> October Webinars: Code for Performance >> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. >> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most >> from >> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > October Webinars: Code for Performance > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. > Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most > from > the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --001a1132ec90fd713304e7841777 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This kind of thing is better discussed in the dev forum of= bitcointalk.org


On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:= 46 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wro= te:



On 29 September 20= 13 04:28, Neil Fincham <neil@asdf.co.nz> wrote:
I subscribe to this list so= I can keep up-to date with bitcoin development, can we keep philosophy and= tax evasion out of it?

Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the= use case clearly.=C2=A0 It was not about evasion, it was about voluntary d= onations going to the correct place, being verified by an oracle.=C2=A0 I d= ont wish to stray off topic, so I'll leave it at that.
=C2=A0

Neil


On 29 September 2013 09:15, <rob.golding@astutium.com> wrote:
> But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in > uncertain. =C2=A0 Do we need to pay capital gains?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do we n= eed to pay a
> sales taxs etc. etc.

In most regions it's not only 'simple' but trivial - BTC = is just
'another currency' and accounted for exactly the same way - it doen= s't
matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig
Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ...

> So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations<= br> > to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers.=C2=A0

You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I'd suggest stronger medicatio= n ...

> However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations.=C2= =A0
> Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent.

80% of 'donations' end up spent on 'adminsitration' a= nd not what they
were donated for, this is a 'greed' issue not a 'currency' = issue.

> In the UK
> a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money > was wisely spent.

Tax isn't voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is we= ll
spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82%
that pay it ;)

> Can we fix it?

First we kill all the politicians ...

> So let's say I run a business and I make 1 million euros.=C2=A0 I = wish to
> donate 10% of my profits to society.=C2=A0 But let's say I dont wa= nt that
> money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire
> de[department.=C2=A0

So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up = to
you ;)

> At this point everyone wins.=C2=A0 The business person is happy to mak= e a
> contribution.=C2=A0 The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue.=C2= =A0 The
> fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work.=C2=A0 And
> everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way.
Where does gov't come into this ? I think you're confusing &#= 39;tax' which
you have zero control over and 'donations' which you already have 1= 00%
control over.

Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
October Webinars: Code for Performance
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= om
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= t;
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------------
October Webinars: Code for Performance
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= om
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= t;
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
___________________= ____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment



-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
October Webinars: Code for Performance
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= om
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= t;
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
___________________= ____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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