From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XF1gG-0006N5-2w for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:55:04 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-ob0-f180.google.com; Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XF1gE-0001yw-2F for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:55:03 +0000 Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id uy5so1791699obc.39 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 06:54:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.132.14 with SMTP id oq14mr15420381oeb.8.1407333296564; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 06:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.35.234 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 06:54:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53E1A8AF.4030206@thinlink.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 15:54:56 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Mjt6VmiN2WPY6YFZTjF1JHCA7QE Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Jeff Garzik Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b41cd2e38ef0b04fff651b2 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XF1gE-0001yw-2F Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] deterministic transaction expiration X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:55:04 -0000 --047d7b41cd2e38ef0b04fff651b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 We could however introduce a new field in a new tx version. We know we need to rev the format at some point anyway. On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > ...and existing users and uses of nLockTime suddenly become worthless, > breaking payment channel refunds and other active uses of nLockTime. > > You cannot assume the user is around to rewrite their nLockTime, if it > fails to be confirmed before some arbitrary deadline being set. > > > > On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Tom Harding wrote: > >> On 8/5/2014 12:10 PM, Kaz Wesley wrote: >> > Any approach based on beginning a transaction expiry countdown when a >> > transaction is received (as in mempool janitor) seems unviable to me: >> > once a node has forgotten a transaction, it must be susceptible to >> > reaccepting it; >> >> It's hard to argue with that logic. >> >> If nLockTime is used for expiration, transaction creator can't lie to >> help tx live longer without pushing initial confirmation eligibility >> into the future. Very pretty. It would also enable "fill or kill" >> transactions with a backdated nLockTime, which must be confirmed in a >> few blocks, or start vanishing from mempools. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Infragistics Professional >> Build stunning WinForms apps today! >> Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls. >> Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future. >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=153845071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > > > -- > Jeff Garzik > Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist > BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Infragistics Professional > Build stunning WinForms apps today! > Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls. > Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=153845071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --047d7b41cd2e38ef0b04fff651b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We could however introduce a new field in a new tx version= . We know we need to rev the format at some point anyway.


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at = 2:55 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
=C2=A0...and existing users= and uses of nLockTime suddenly become worthless, breaking payment channel = refunds and other active uses of nLockTime.

You cannot assume the user is around to rewrite their nLockTime, if it = fails to be confirmed before some arbitrary deadline being set.



On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Tom Harding <tomh@th= inlink.com> wrote:
On 8/5/2014 12:10 PM, Kaz Wesley wrote:=
> Any approach based on beginning a transaction expiry countdown when a<= br> > transaction is received (as in mempool janitor) seems unviable to me:<= br> > once a node has forgotten a transaction, it must be susceptible to
> reaccepting it;

It's hard to argue with that logic.

If nLockTime is used for expiration, transaction creator can't lie to help tx live longer without pushing initial confirmation eligibility
into the future. =C2=A0Very pretty. =C2=A0It would also enable "fill o= r kill"
transactions with a backdated nLockTime, which must be confirmed in a
few blocks, or start vanishing from mempools.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Infragistics Professional
Build stunning WinForms apps today!
Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls.
Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D153845071&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
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Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment



--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evan= gelist
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://bitpay.com/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Infragistics Professional
Build stunning WinForms apps today!
Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls.
Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D153845071&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
__________________= _____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
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