From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WLrZs-0000bg-9I for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:00:28 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.174; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-ob0-f174.google.com; Received: from mail-ob0-f174.google.com ([209.85.214.174]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WLrZq-0007tP-VQ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:00:28 +0000 Received: by mail-ob0-f174.google.com with SMTP id wo20so3913301obc.33 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 02:00:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.44.8 with SMTP id a8mr10220539oem.19.1394186421612; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 02:00:21 -0800 (PST) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.71.231 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 02:00:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 11:00:21 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: iSpzil1ItjmVgGPM3fUTqMLDO-w Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: johannes@zweng.at Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2e45869391d04f401525a X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WLrZq-0007tP-VQ Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Andreas Schildbach Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Instant / contactless payments X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:00:28 -0000 --001a11c2e45869391d04f401525a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 HCE is a bit scary. It's like the card companies tried the secure element thing, decided the security was too hard and were like "screw it, let's just use regular apps after all". Not that we're any better :) At any rate, Bitcoin doesn't have any need to emulate smartcards as we don't have any pre-existing infrastructure. We can just use a regular non-smarcard-emulation ISO-DEP protocol. The new UI in Android 4.4 provides some way to choose the default payment app, but I think it's only intended to disambiguate between credit card providers. Everything else gets dumped into CATEGORY_OTHER and I dunno what happens if you have multiple Bitcoin wallet apps doing the same thing. Worst case, we can add some disambiguation code on top, inside the apps themselves. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Johannes Zweng wrote: > > 2014-03-06 12:26 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach : > > > >> In current phone implementations, the screen must be on already for NFC >> to be active. Also it must be unlocked, although I certainly hope future >> OSes will allow payment apps on the lock screen, just like they allow >> music players. > > > Just a small input to this point: > On Android 4.4 the new host card emulation (HCE) feature (aka: the phone > emulates a ISO-DEP Smartcard and processes ISO7816-4 APDU commands like a > Smartcard would do) only works when the display is on, but even when the > screen is locked (can be changed with "android:requireDeviceUnlock" in > Manifest). See here for detailled specification: > http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/nfc/hce.html > > Using the HCE API on Android 4.4 also has the beauty that any app that > registers itself for HCE and sets its category to CATEGORY_PAYMENT in the > Manifest automatically shows up in Adroid's system settings under "Tap & > Pay" (where a user would expect payment applications). > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Subversion Kills Productivity. Get off Subversion & Make the Move to > Perforce. > With Perforce, you get hassle-free workflows. Merge that actually works. > Faster operations. Version large binaries. Built-in WAN optimization and > the > freedom to use Git, Perforce or both. Make the move to Perforce. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=122218951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --001a11c2e45869391d04f401525a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HCE is a bit scary. It's like the card companies tried= the secure element thing, decided the security was too hard and were like = "screw it, let's just use regular apps after all". Not that w= e're any better :)

At any rate, Bitcoin doesn't have any need to emulate sm= artcards as we don't have any pre-existing infrastructure. We can just = use a regular non-smarcard-emulation ISO-DEP protocol. The new UI in Androi= d 4.4 provides some way to choose the default payment app, but I think it&#= 39;s only intended to disambiguate between credit card providers. Everythin= g else gets dumped into CATEGORY_OTHER and I dunno what happens if you have= multiple Bitcoin wallet apps doing the same thing. Worst case, we can add = some disambiguation code on top, inside the apps themselves.



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Johannes Zweng &= lt;johannes@zweng.at= > wrote:
=
2014-03-06 12:26 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbac= h <andreas@schildbach.de>:

=C2=A0
In current phone implementations, the scr= een must be on already for NFC
to be active. Also it must be unlocked, although I certainly hope future OSes will allow payment apps on the lock screen, just like they allow
music players.

Just a small input to = this point:
On Android 4.4 the new host card emulation (HCE) feat= ure (aka: the phone emulates a ISO-DEP Smartcard and processes=C2=A0ISO7816= -4 APDU commands like a Smartcard would do) only works when the display is = on, but even when the screen is locked (can be changed with "android:r= equireDeviceUnlock" in Manifest). See here for detailled specification= :=C2=A0http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/con= nectivity/nfc/hce.html

Using the HCE API on Android 4.4 also has the beauty th= at any app that registers itself for HCE and sets its category to CATEGORY_= PAYMENT in the Manifest automatically shows up in Adroid's system setti= ngs under "Tap & Pay" (where a user would expect payment appl= ications).



-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Subversion Kills Productivity. Get off Subversion & Make the Move to Pe= rforce.
With Perforce, you get hassle-free workflows. Merge that actually works. Faster operations. Version large binaries. =C2=A0Built-in WAN optimization = and the
freedom to use Git, Perforce or both. Make the move to Perforce.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D122218951&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
__________________= _____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


--001a11c2e45869391d04f401525a--