From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TfdYs-0006ax-Fw for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:28:22 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.47; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f47.google.com ([209.85.219.47]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1TfdYo-0003Y6-MK for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:28:22 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id h1so3416574oag.34 for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:28:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.32.73 with SMTP id g9mr3554682oei.134.1354570093358; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:28:13 -0800 (PST) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.128.139 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2012 13:28:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121128233619.GA6368@giles.gnomon.org.uk> <20121129170713.GD6368@giles.gnomon.org.uk> <20121129185330.GE6368@giles.gnomon.org.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 22:28:13 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2PPdcLRZmVdStecze_K-1oZ1czw Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Mike Koss Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1TfdYo-0003Y6-MK Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Payment Protocol Proposal: Invoices/Payments/Receipts X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:28:22 -0000 > It would also be really nice to migrate to textual representations of data > structures as opposed to binary ones. The most successful internet > standards are based on text. There are lots of successful binary protocols: TCP, IP, PNG, JPEG, MP3, DNS, SSH, SSL, the Bitcoin protocol itself. What's more some other protocols that are text based have suffered serious problems due to that choice. Witness the absurd design of SMTP that means you can't start a paragraph with the word From because that's a new-message marker! Or the fact that file attachments grow by 33% when you send them. Or the various exploits that can exist in web servers thanks to header splitting attacks. Trying to represent something binary as text doesn't make any sense. If you look at these data structures they consist of keys, signatures, hashes, certificates and other fundamentally binary things. You'd just end up base64 encoding everything anyway, at which point all you've done is design an inefficient binary protocol that masquerades as text. The disadvantages of both with the advantages of neither. Protocol buffers have a text form that you can print to and parse from, if you so wish, though I only normally see people use that support for debug prints and sometimes because they want to load hand-written config files directly into protobuf generated objects.