Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

[Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>]

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How many downloads/day do we see currently? I think you said it's on the
order of a few thousand, so nowhere near 30k I'd guess. Anyway I can mirror
it if we need to.

The JavaFX packager is supposed to delete parts of the JVM that aren't
used. Is the 30-40mb figure based on using that tool or something else?
Note that you don't need to use the JFX widget toolkit to use the bundler
tool.

We could also invest in a copy of JET, which does native compilation down
to self contained Windows binaries. It might create smaller bundles. But,
it's a proprietary tool and I don't know how reproducible its outputs are.

For the auto update, is there an existing auto update framework that we can
modify to support threshold signed updates? I'm sure such a thing must
exist. The updates would download in the background and then the app can
just ask the user to restart it once the update is locally available, as
Chrome does.



On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Yes I would like to bundle a JVM as it would simplify the user
> experience.
>
> There are a few downsides though:
> + all the build packaging will need redoing and retesting.
> + it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB
> (I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the multibit.org
> server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish.
> The multibit.org server maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.
>
> Currently there is no provision to update anything automatically.
> I would like to start having Bitcoin signed files that MultiBit can
> check
> and update (initially the checkpoints file, I18N files - NOT code
> at first because of the security implications). I think this needs to be
> in place before bundling a JVM so that users don't have to
> keep redownloading it.
>
> Having lists of all the artifacts signed and them having SHA256 hashes
> then makes it practical/ safe to start mirroring the code. I can see
> each mirror crosschecking the others that the SHA256s are correct
> for instance. This would increase the maximum number of
> downloads we could cope with.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. I
> > don't know if Jim does that, but I think it's an obvious step towards
> > making MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.
> >
> > BTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the
> > applet
> > plugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JVM
> > and
> > plugin together there is not an issue.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle <
> > calebdelisle@lavabit.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples to
> apples.
> > > With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java code
> and
> > > your browser automatically executes it.
> > > With Multibit you're only executing highly trusted code (so trusted
> that it
> > > handles your money).
> > > There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted code.
> > >
> > > The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people would be
> > > tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JVM is
> > > probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete client
> outside
> > > of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than
> stamping
> > > out java.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caleb
> > >
> > >
> > > On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:
> > > > But... Multibit is Java. Java's security problems has made it an
> instant
> > > uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits are a
> > > dime a dozen.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabling the
> > > browser plugin, but how many users will do that?
> > > >
> > > > Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of course.
> > > Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their
> computers by
> > > installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled
> binary
> > > without a Java dependency, it is DOA.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe <g.rowe@froot.co.uk <mailto:
> > > g.rowe@froot.co.uk>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     I've beefed up the supporting documentation for the website to
> make
> > > it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It's a Java
> > > application serving HTML.
> > > >
> > > >     It can be found here: https://github.com/jim618/multibit-website
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk <mailto:
> > > jim618@fastmail.co.uk>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >         Yeah "email jim' was never going to work so I have
> > > >         bumped up MultiBit support (a bit) by:
> > > >
> > > >         + having a dedicated Support page on the website
> > > >            https://multibit.org/support.html
> > > >            It has fixes and support notes for the most common
> gotchas.
> > > >         + the in-app help also now has a 'Support' section with
> > > >            "Troubleshooting' and the commonest gotchas.
> > > >            I've also written more help to cover as much as possible.
> > > >         + Failing that people are directed first to
> > > bitcoin.stackchange.com <http://bitcoin.stackchange.com>
> > > >            (I have a notification set up for the 'multibit' keyword.
> > > >         + Then finally users are directed to the github issues to
> search
> > > >            existing or raise a new issue. Gary and Tim often chip in
> on
> > > there to
> > > >            close
> > > >            issues down as well as me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >         On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > > >         > Sounds like we have consensus, Saivann, shall we do it?
> > > >         >
> > > >         > I'm also going to ask Theymos again to relax the newbie
> > > restrictions
> > > >         > for the alt client forums. It's probably too hard to get
> > > support at
> > > >         > the moment and "email jim" doesn't scale at all.
> > > >         >
> > > >         > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Gavin Andresen <
> > > gavinandresen@gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com>>
> > > >         > wrote:
> > > >         > > I vote "yes" to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the
> > > recommended
> > > >         > > desktop wallet app. I think most users will be happier
> with
> > > it.
> > > >         > >
> > > >         > > If I'm wrong, it is easy to change back.
> > > >         > >
> > > >         > >
> > >
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> https://multibit.org    Money, reinvented
>
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