From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D94C0012; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:35:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CEF607A6; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:35:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qf1xlwqqxQHs; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:35:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAE306079F; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id l24so20847359uak.2; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 08:35:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=g7OFDXXE8RBwa48s976Wk/6BUSRPBZHnaUm9s52qSn4=; b=G5oHi/dbiS5EZRcjFuWz0uVe2Bqk4qzpUvclxHyuCXahLZW2c3D2ZQCpa1vPwEsl2u HOIL5GikVTJJxQMQSFnGNK5bOBjvLDwGubWDnVsElJAP4OVYMCwYpThIKgLqbVu1lQUp cua6+StMTeNpcwfmz4HRdvkDQrv0PKdgf2AThwkZjOOK6Hu8rj31xQNwRuiCL/HzYN4l IViyfyw7Kyfm+r3mi0qxnuUemPVQCQyINGTq/V2okbOa4qgbgQKq6dcMqkhe03xE0diW 4JKH1vwd3VMNoOtHfpC6a/vyZdtE4xkuBP/HVS/CC8Ece5Ah65F2B3EJeoN3J9aqqsD7 w6Ag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=g7OFDXXE8RBwa48s976Wk/6BUSRPBZHnaUm9s52qSn4=; b=xL5XuxkYMJwgZOyCwRaBEgylMGF62aR6Op7k6RUUluf1uUFK6c+orZ9FS5L4jBlS6u VKQM3kdvMOv9TgGnZkZmuWPUDE5cPATOR/69qMt6gGzzGb8QEyPfNVohWSka12zvD8Xt dE2KPRJ0clSb9jaWdWeI84RTtgnWipz2l1DLn4N7jv8HDLoc4ZBFpDLP6S90PY++5QWR pMjJv31ThIhAj2JWDZRK82HpnK9i8UtYmluhLqkYnLeUH/dN9M7F12beihZ/IE9m8ClH w8n5iZiPq9fmkX9oaRVUKuMVdqL467AGlXLoBfwshMwhMkCY75B2CmYrR5vZAeSvC711 ra/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+g82dq2f6U5Xnn03uzvgUWnMRfryV4GV4LCd8b4n3svoIkGrt YCEeQ07T0atpeGYfOO5fZh8PSWGWv6+K82w3QzA1YCm2gbk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwziPtIMZC7H0B8ReSEcfc0T8ACLQabpV3OwdypAB3mOQoQuLxpZVKLfELv+vrRRiD3ZYE/I7MvRfBst7VcBXU= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:3898:: with SMTP id z24mr40831487uav.26.1638808522473; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 08:35:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Christian Moss Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:35:19 +0000 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Habov=C5=A1tiak?= , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d645f505d27cd7e9" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 18:01:07 +0000 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?H=C3=A9ctor_Jos=C3=A9_C=C3=A1rdenas_Pacheco?= , lightning-dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:35:25 -0000 --000000000000d645f505d27cd7e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As far as I understand it, RGB doesn't scale NFTs as each transaction to transfer ownership of an NFT would require an onchain transaction On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 3:44 PM Martin Habov=C5=A1tiak via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I recommend you researching RGB: https://rgb-org.github.io/ > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:21 Karl wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm not a bitcoin developer. >> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM H=C3=A9ctor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1rdenas Pacheco= via bitcoin-dev >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I=E2=80=99ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create = and trade >>> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wonde= ring >>> if it=E2=80=99s possible to >>> >> >> Do you have a link to any of these protocols? >> >> make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. >>> >>> More specific questions could be: >>> >>> 1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80=99s opening = or >>> closing transaction? >>> 2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or >>> network of channels? >>> >>> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network. It >> is not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with >> ownership, and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by send= ing >> associated currency via lightning. Robustness improvements seem possibl= e. >> >> >>> 1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person >>> send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the pr= imary >>> ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? >>> >>> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a >> protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning. >> >> I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer= parallel >>> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and= the >>> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the >>> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledge= r. >>> >>> Thank in advance. >>> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 >>> >>> *H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas*@hcarpach >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lightning-dev mailing list >> Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --000000000000d645f505d27cd7e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As far as I understand it, RGB doesn't scale NFTs as e= ach transaction=C2=A0to=C2=A0transfer=C2=A0ownership of an NFT would requir= e an onchain transaction

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 3:44 PM Martin Habov=C5=A1ti= ak via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
I recommend you= researching RGB:=C2=A0https://rgb-org.github.io/

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:21 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> = wrote:
Hi,

I'= ;m not a bitcoin developer.

=
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM H=C3=A9c= tor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1rdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev <= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Hello all,

I=E2=80=99ve been thinking= about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade NFTs on Bitcoin (thi= nk RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering if it=E2=80=99s pos= sible to

Do you have a link to any of these protoc= ols?

make transactions with this o= pcode via Lightning.

More specific questions could= be:
  1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80= =99s opening or closing transaction?
  2. If so, could that OP_RETURN ch= ange hands within that channel or network of channels?
OP_RETURNs do= not have ownership according to the bitcoin network.=C2=A0 It is not hard = to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership, and owner= ship could then be transferred via lightning by sending associated currency= via lightning.=C2=A0 Robustness improvements seem possible.

  1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divi= sible? Could one person send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do ri= ght now on the primary ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN co= de intact?
=
OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can = define a protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightn= ing.

I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if = possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel to Bitcoin/Lightning th= at stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the ones which involve the= node's channels as well as the ones with the OP_RETURN, just like Coun= terParty does right now with the primary ledger.

T= hank in advance.
=E2=80=94=E2=80=94
H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas
@hcarpach

_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.li= nuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
_______________________________________________
Lightning-dev mailing list
Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfounda= tion.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
--000000000000d645f505d27cd7e9--