From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5vCN-0001Ez-VY for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 12:15:07 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of midnightdesign.ws designates 50.87.144.70 as permitted sender) client-ip=50.87.144.70; envelope-from=boydb@midnightdesign.ws; helo=gator3054.hostgator.com; Received: from gator3054.hostgator.com ([50.87.144.70]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z5vCM-00018k-7H for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 12:15:07 +0000 Received: from [209.85.160.181] (port=35587 helo=mail-yk0-f181.google.com) by gator3054.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (UNKNOWN:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5un2-000145-Nq for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 06:48:56 -0500 Received: by ykar6 with SMTP id r6so89534131yka.2 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnIGrTWPzmfOd255EUUzh7vMHgkzNCNnL5ycq4UbKec1R8LRtIB4rGegLWQmtyDBFNJekVg MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.181.196 with SMTP id dy4mr12318388vdc.67.1434714534723; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.232.65 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:48:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <55828737.6000007@riseup.net> <55831CAB.2080303@jrn.me.uk> <1867667.WXWC1C9quc@crushinator> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 06:48:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: Brooks Boyd To: Bitcoin Development Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5485aba325bc60518dd82c6 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3054.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.sourceforge.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - midnightdesign.ws X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 209.85.160.181 X-Exim-ID: 1Z5un2-000145-Nq X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (mail-yk0-f181.google.com) [209.85.160.181]:35587 X-Source-Auth: midnight X-Email-Count: 0 X-Source-Cap: bWlkbmlnaHQ7bWlkbmlnaHQ7Z2F0b3IzMDU0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1Z5vCM-00018k-7H Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 12:15:08 -0000 --bcaec5485aba325bc60518dd82c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 4:37 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative >> experiences with full blocks >> > > It's impossible, Mark. *By definition* if Bitcoin does not have > sufficient capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using > it will be kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in > some kind of stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly > chaotic way doesn't change the fundamental truth: *some users will find > their bitcoin savings have become uneconomic to spend*. > > Here's a recent user complaint that provides a preview of coming > attractions: > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r3bi/breadwallet_asking_me_to_pay_over_10_network_fee/ > > Hello, I'm just trying to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159 bits) >> onto a paper wallet. When I try to send it, a window pops up stating >> "insufficient funds for bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by 1,389 >> bits?" This would be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with $2.50. > > > Has there been any talk about reducing the time between blocks? If blocks were allowed to come twice as fast, they would be able to clear pending transactions in the mempool the same as if the block size doubled, but would allow mining to stay more decentralized since miners wouldn't be working on such large-scale blocks? It would still take more storage space to store the blockchain, though. Brooks --bcaec5485aba325bc60518dd82c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Jun 19, 2015 at 4:37 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrot= e:
Or alte= rnatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative experiences with f= ull blocks

I= t's impossible, Mark. By definition=C2=A0if Bitcoin does not hav= e sufficient capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were = using it will be kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happen= s in some kind of stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fair= ly chaotic way doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will= find their bitcoin savings have become uneconomic to spend.
=
Here's a recent user complaint that provides a pr= eview of coming attractions:

=
Hello, I'm just tryi= ng to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159 bits) onto a paper wallet. = When I try to send it, a window pops up stating "insufficient funds fo= r bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by 1,389 bits?" This woul= d be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with $2.50.


Has = there been any talk about reducing the time between blocks? If blocks were = allowed to come twice as fast, they would be able to clear pending transact= ions in the mempool the same as if the block size doubled, but would allow = mining to stay more decentralized since miners wouldn't be working on s= uch large-scale blocks? It would still take more storage space to store the= blockchain, though.

Brooks
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