From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <mark@friedenbach.org> Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F5FF7AD for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:43:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com (mail-ig0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB60EB0 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:43:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by igcpb10 with SMTP id pb10so64338265igc.1 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:43:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=pLlA/U0wFKQDxnL6lA3DEUDUd1tfi2Zj7bV4AcqYxtw=; b=BFGKH2ed9Z+92E6+oOLYKwo8ow+a5CSBKziDTL0JCyxz7Vgpg3wprZ2qkIkowAIg3G uMAVxozRH5vhici66UTqRsjEh7CHp/bkb8icSCj3nJWq04toK0exfPesWMzpD1iIkJLp rKYr0msp/ebkdWV9ZwxxwbyUL05AqkU1pApjgyAmH7hGsNYEmIj5n1WDRFoNyIH3Gxu8 OP8q2f7HsWRLmkFMiBxY5bxn5uwJpJNQ8P/jVeYTJb3KDmfpDo17xUhPr9XBhUDweL3T 79VcQgQi+dBt3yyKG8kF4jRsIsUA9ACfh+SX3rF6AZg12Q6qjQp44YuKPcc8w9dXDJGw zrHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlMMmQoSjW6Kquyc/iSE0KFn4CFxmMNZ5X6QZ7i38kN4ZZ4Qlkk3UZRoOCKZrf8XDlWhFbl X-Received: by 10.50.138.72 with SMTP id qo8mr7517517igb.46.1442763818904; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:43:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.135.104 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [24.114.99.193] In-Reply-To: <CA+w+GKQQKZpv0pT0gNL2maqu8HMB-D=1zGAniRg5qfJ53os=MA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CADm_WcaLKqhR=WcJ5B52Q9SAAa+AdZY6Kz5OCQVUc_RQm6e9gg@mail.gmail.com> <55F9E47D.50507@mattcorallo.com> <CAOG=w-t2ZYQbx8+mG5FX8vzgAC_tb8A6KMABmudHQbrquEqX-Q@mail.gmail.com> <55FC6EBF.9090504@mattcorallo.com> <20150919014710.GD22598@muck> <20150919060639.A775A404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD0737.1080008@voskuil.org> <20150919072714.D3349404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD1122.5030107@voskuil.org> <20150919075758.820CC404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD225B.1050402@voskuil.org> <CA+w+GKQK=aouA_05-GaypgZ9waF5OOF3xWn=V5ih6Mz08s37DA@mail.gmail.com> <55FDD951.9010709@gmail.com> <CA+w+GKQQKZpv0pT0gNL2maqu8HMB-D=1zGAniRg5qfJ53os=MA@mail.gmail.com> From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:43:19 -0400 Message-ID: <CAOG=w-sBi50zj725BV1urLokF7+hxiQzvH5AAebUZ62_92nbLg@mail.gmail.com> To: Mike Hearn <hearn@vinumeris.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134c792ebca3805202fa03c X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Bitcoin conference micro-report X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:43:41 -0000 --001a1134c792ebca3805202fa03c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Replying to this specific email only because it is the most recent in my mail client. Does this conversation have to happen on-list? It seems to have wandered incredibly far off-topic. On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Also, in the US, despite overwhelming resistance on a broad scale, >> legislation continues to be presented which would violate the 2nd amendment >> right to keep and bear arms. > > > And yet the proposed legislation goes nowhere, and the USA continues to > stand alone in having the first world's weakest gun control laws. > > You are just supporting my point with this example. Obama would like to > restrict guns, but can't, because they are too popular (in the USA). > > The comparison to BitTorrent is likewise weak: governments hardly care > about piracy. They care enough to pass laws occasionally, but not enough to > put serious effort into enforcement. Wake me up when the USA establishes a > Copyright Enforcement Administration with the same budget and powers as the > DEA. > > Internet based black markets exist only because governments tolerate them > (for now). A ban on Tor, Bitcoin or both would send them back to the > pre-2011 state where they were virtually non-existent. Governments tolerate > this sort of abuse only because they believe, I think correctly, that > Bitcoin can have great benefits for their ordinary voters and for now are > willing to let the tech industry experiment. > > But for that state of affairs to continue, the benefits must actually > appear. That requires growth. > > I think there's a difference between natural growth and the kind of growth >> that's being proposed by bank-backed start-ups and pro-censorship entities. >> > > What difference? Are you saying the people who come to Bitcoin because of > a startup are somehow less "natural" than other users? > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a1134c792ebca3805202fa03c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Replying to this specific email only because it is th= e most recent in my mail client.<br><br></div>Does this conversation have t= o happen on-list? It seems to have wandered incredibly far off-topic.<br></= div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 2= 0, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre= f=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoi= n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma= il_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204= );border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Also, in=C2=A0the US, despite o= verwhelming resistance on a broad scale, legislation=C2=A0continues to be p= resented which would violate the 2nd amendment right to=C2=A0keep and bear = arms.</blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>And yet the proposed legislati= on goes nowhere, and the USA continues to stand alone in having the first w= orld's weakest gun control laws.</div><div><br></div><div>You are just = supporting my point with this example. Obama would like to restrict guns, b= ut can't, because they are too popular (in the USA).</div><div><br></di= v><div>The comparison to BitTorrent is likewise weak: governments hardly ca= re about piracy. They care enough to pass laws occasionally, but not enough= to put serious effort into enforcement. Wake me up when the USA establishe= s a Copyright Enforcement Administration with the same budget and powers as= the DEA.</div><div><br></div><div>Internet based black markets exist only = because governments tolerate them (for now). A ban on Tor, Bitcoin or both = would send them back to the pre-2011 state where they were virtually non-ex= istent. Governments tolerate this sort of abuse only because they believe, = I think correctly, that Bitcoin can have great benefits for their ordinary = voters and for now are willing to let the tech industry experiment.</div><d= iv><br></div><div>But for that state of affairs to continue, the benefits m= ust actually appear. That requires growth.</div><span class=3D""><div><br><= /div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo= rder-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:so= lid;padding-left:1ex">I think there's a difference between natural grow= th and the kind of=C2=A0growth that's being proposed by bank-backed sta= rt-ups and pro-censorship=C2=A0entities.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></s= pan><div>What difference? Are you saying the people who come to Bitcoin bec= ause of a startup are somehow less "natural" than other users?</d= iv></div></div></div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> --001a1134c792ebca3805202fa03c--