From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75E2F847 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:52:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f175.google.com (mail-ig0-f175.google.com [209.85.213.175]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD37FEE for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:52:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by igfj19 with SMTP id j19so42234930igf.0 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=eVFlx748zMZvg4qKzKGUuauV5CN6joUVVRtZEK+5TvA=; b=gM1rTtGm3Yu2amfEwWpNjj/Zc8JAOBOAm76kkVAAjbYQ0axWTIsexUI2XhunFKRQhw FGv+nTPFLAGA1EQEkXbghGdkoscY8WRomCyV1x1WFlEzDgWDG8ZDOjb6f71/2Ubo9TEj cazgj+tTHcTNsLAeIv3KyDR/k4L7rNTsJxUJoMHtPkmVD34Otz893LHzNKHb5bCEaYDO lbnOY22x0/3Byn0kv9sJwahnIFWMVmACXdNEnwjITVKBocx2aC0VMJIKl0KD9GRJPJ0o ZptkmYKGM76kMQICblPvJs4JKtTb/u+Kne/Q0TF3sK4JQLw2Fn52o0GEOF8T00Grk40p NjJg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn9aLKQaKo5BFQNynKLQfXMukTur4Vum/35n1m9lp6RDZ6wZjczl69WdvNm4DJRFLQTKQnA X-Received: by 10.50.88.8 with SMTP id bc8mr13542545igb.46.1439743972236; Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.138.14 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [172.56.40.188] In-Reply-To: References: From: Mark Friedenbach Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:52:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Levin Keller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111bea208a3bc051d708446 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Minimum Block Size X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:52:54 -0000 --089e0111bea208a3bc051d708446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Levin, it is a complicated issue for which there isn't an easy answer. Part of the issue is that "block size" doesn't actually measure resource usage very reliably. It is possible to support a much higher volume of typical usage transactions than transactions specifically constructed to cause DoS issues. But if "block size" is the knob being tweaked, then you must design for the DoS worst case, not the average/expected use case. Additionally, there is an issue of time horizons and what presumed improvements are made to the client. Bitcoin Core today can barely handle 1MB blocks, but that's an engineering limitation. So are we assuming fixes that aren't actually deployed yet? Should we raise the block size before that work is tested and its performance characteristics validated? It's a complicated issue without easy answers, and that's why you're not seeing straightforward statements of "2MB", "8MB", or "20MB" from most of the developers. But that's not to say that people aren't doing anything. There is a workshop being organized for September 12-13th that will cover much of these "it's complicated" issues. There will be a follow-on workshop in the Nov/Dec timeframe in which specific proposals will be discussed. I encourage you to participate: http://scalingbitcoin.org/ On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Levin Keller via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > as with the current "max block size" debate I was wondering: Is anyone > here in favor of a minimum block size (say 2 MB or so)? If so I would be > interested in an exchange (maybe off-list) of ideas. I am in favor of a > lower limit and am giving it quite a bit of thought at the moment. > > Cheers > > Levin > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --089e0111bea208a3bc051d708446 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Levin, it is a complicated issue for w= hich there isn't an easy answer. Part of the issue is that "block = size" doesn't actually measure resource usage very reliably. It is= possible to support a much higher volume of typical usage transactions tha= n transactions specifically constructed to cause DoS issues. But if "b= lock size" is the knob being tweaked, then you must design for the DoS= worst case, not the average/expected use case.

Additionally, = there is an issue of time horizons and what presumed improvements are made = to the client. Bitcoin Core today can barely handle 1MB blocks, but that= 9;s an engineering limitation. So are we assuming fixes that aren't act= ually deployed yet? Should we raise the block size before that work is test= ed and its performance characteristics validated?

It's a c= omplicated issue without easy answers, and that's why you're not se= eing straightforward statements of "2MB", "8MB", or &qu= ot;20MB" from most of the developers.

But that's not = to say that people aren't doing anything. There is a workshop being org= anized for September 12-13th that will cover much of these "it's c= omplicated" issues. There will be a follow-on workshop in the Nov/Dec = timeframe in which specific proposals will be discussed. I encourage you to= participate:

http://sc= alingbitcoin.org/

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Levin Keller via bitcoin-dev= <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>= wrote:
Hey everyone,
as with the current "max block size" debate I wa= s wondering: Is anyone here in favor of a minimum block size (say 2 MB or s= o)? If so I would be interested in an exchange (maybe off-list) of ideas. I= am in favor of a lower limit and am giving it quite a bit of thought at th= e moment.

Cheers

Levin

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bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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