public inbox for bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
To: Thomas Zander <thomas@thomaszander.se>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn'ttemporary
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 11:02:43 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAOG=w-vZ+5fBxpZ2bVgg_H9VD4cmSDhtkaOu4_UH3gvw-QfkEw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4330019.CpFTjXpmfm@coldstorage>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1949 bytes --]

They aren't really so closely related as you are implying, since bitcoin is
a trustlessly decentralized system. At present every participant needs to
be able to validate the entire chain in order to be certain that their copy
of the ledger state is correct, and miners need to be able to incrementally
validate blocks in particularly short timeframes or else.

It is possible for a decentralized system like bitcoin to scale via
distribution in a way that introduces minimal trust, for example by
probabilistic validation and distribution of fraud proofs. However changes
to bitcoin consensus rules (mostly soft-forks) are required in order to
make this possible.

I don't want to discourage thinking about scaling bitcoin in such ways, as
it is a viable medium term proposal. However right now with the bitcoin
that exists today parallel distribution and decentralization are at odds
with each other.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On Thursday 30. July 2015 18.07.40 Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Remember when we went from single-core CPUs to multi-core (and
> > hyperthreading)? Developers were saying it was useless because all apps
> > were  still single-threaded.  And now, 15 years later, there are
> fantastic
> > frameworks to make this easy.
> >
> > Same will happen with distributed. Any assumption you wrote above is not
> > inherent in the technology.
>
> My brain went a bit to fast (dinner was being served, she made me close the
> laptop...) and wrote distributed above while the topic is decentralized.
> Its not entirely wrong, even; Libraries or approaches that do distributed
> will
> be useful for decentralized systems.  ;)
>
> --
> Thomas Zander
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2680 bytes --]

  reply	other threads:[~2015-07-30 18:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-07-28 22:25 [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn't temporary Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29  0:43 ` Jean-Paul Kogelman
2015-07-29  0:44   ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29  0:46   ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-07-29  0:55     ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29  2:40       ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29  3:37         ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29  3:46           ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-07-29  5:17             ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29 11:18         ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-29  9:59 ` Mike Hearn
2015-07-29 10:43   ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29 11:15     ` Mike Hearn
2015-07-29 12:03       ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-29 12:13         ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-29 17:17       ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn'ttemporary Raystonn .
2015-07-29 19:56       ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn't temporary Owen
2015-07-29 20:09         ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-07-29 21:28           ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn'ttemporary Raystonn .
2015-07-29 22:11             ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-07-29 23:10               ` Raystonn .
2015-07-30  3:49                 ` Adam Back
2015-07-30  4:51                   ` Andrew LeCody
2015-07-30  8:21                     ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn't temporary Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-30  9:15                       ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-30 12:29                       ` Gavin
2015-07-30 12:50                         ` Pieter Wuille
2015-07-30 14:03                           ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-30 14:05                           ` Gavin Andresen
2015-07-30 14:28                             ` Pieter Wuille
2015-07-30 15:36                             ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-30 23:33                         ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-31  0:15                           ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-07-31 21:30                             ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-31 21:43                               ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-31  6:42                           ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-31 20:45                             ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-31 20:57                               ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-08-01 20:22                               ` John T. Winslow
2015-08-01 21:05                                 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-07-30  9:16                   ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn'ttemporary Venzen Khaosan
2015-07-30  9:38                     ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-30 13:33                       ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-07-30 14:10                         ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-30 14:52                       ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-30 15:24                         ` Bryan Bishop
2015-07-30 15:55                           ` Gavin Andresen
2015-07-30 17:24                             ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-31 15:27                             ` Bryan Bishop
2015-07-30 16:07                           ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-30 17:42                             ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-30 18:02                               ` Mark Friedenbach [this message]
2015-07-31  0:22                                 ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn't temporary Eric Lombrozo
2015-07-31  8:06                                 ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn'ttemporary Thomas Zander
2015-07-30 15:41                         ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-30  9:44             ` odinn
2015-07-29 20:23         ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measureisn't temporary Raystonn .
2015-07-29 11:29     ` [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure isn't temporary Thomas Zander
2015-07-29 18:00     ` Jorge Timón
2015-07-30  7:08       ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-29 16:53   ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-07-29 17:30     ` Sriram Karra
2015-07-29 18:03     ` Mike Hearn
2015-07-29 19:53       ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-07-30 14:15         ` Thomas Zander
2015-07-30  9:05       ` odinn

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CAOG=w-vZ+5fBxpZ2bVgg_H9VD4cmSDhtkaOu4_UH3gvw-QfkEw@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=mark@friedenbach.org \
    --cc=bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=thomas@thomaszander.se \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox