From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EA38C8B for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ot1-f46.google.com (mail-ot1-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7354683A for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-f46.google.com with SMTP id z6so2729890otb.2 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:16:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=aGcZJrbQulw4m86rSSfbytHEx8kukX8/JuOHTNTuKr4=; b=JOm3GQ2dSGkvWuZpjIW0HhGZD4HeDkt5jVLy29ETtP3wMHzgouU9YaTBUNfS7N/d8P ON81AU8FXb9DruHkBSyY8KGbNen6pL1ztmTzKvLfzcYESzwVQ6nzAOnh0vOSrDUh1qOt 12uCS2k3FRHZ3wz/S8llxaCM6itj1LWZuOdzx/kpSbxe8l1aaKc/HaYMuh4TSkj2Ps8L cLd1QamV5haClhi1ZrBWRIGlgsjIDumQFitMYOat71uY0OoIqIpALysMK2ebcYhCWcNH 7lvhAy37fWF/zSAiLFC4iwcK+U9VaSaSs5yTUpPRBXRQbyPiHw7mX3vmMmJEt93LCKpF WVNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=aGcZJrbQulw4m86rSSfbytHEx8kukX8/JuOHTNTuKr4=; b=DavgJuQ6/z5HSNec+IRI9C+EYHnJoSXS1SnshPpIJ53tyCpAfYF1ekWhwF4v0yLOaw ZgKUkwZwl74RxnLPdYchXfyJtlEdxkfM60woakVqid3Xy9dSaaj/GSd89JoVK+S8X3qO ti4tgxbZhrCxMcxg1VZ5pXg5LguH8Sjdkc0JIdqCCGv7+AGZ2IIRgWM1pwl7jx7fuaA4 nqV6lb6brPj21aWL9IrrDfy5L9Mq9lwdem3uKyjuefFPsJEXSYv56l0u27bHNcK5Unit DLeZID4JyFdJWT2udyu4IpYNimGLVkGnIJmX3c+b9mt2QFM7wxkTNvomwEP8js1UgL2Z R9Cw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUbeKM2qsN5W5rsoVtoVqTB80Yo+THY3d05CXR4Pq4byZ8D4mt3 X10n8Ph64tC1CStk9D8WFVYZF+KLVwCy7bDStK9214iGqQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyaZ044CLapbtxv5u69eBEv+8Q8D+FCqLW+AN3ZC0fYNKOrk/Bfv/MzhklQ+6L/4Tywt0QMYl+VD41R208wMo0= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:30c2:: with SMTP id r2mr6497569otg.186.1568891807488; Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:16:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: John Tromp Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:16:36 +0200 Message-ID: To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:22:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Timelocks and Lightning on MimbleWimble X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:49 -0000 > However, I believe that Lightning and similar offchain protocols are **not possible** on MimbleWimble, at least if we want to retain its "magical shrinking blockchain" property. MimbleWimble can easily incorporate relative lock heights, in addition to absolute lock heights. Grin and Beam have included the latter since launch. Grin's proposal for relative lock heights is at [1] with discussion at [2]. Based on these, Grin also has a rough design for payment channels at [3]. Beam included relative lock heights in its recent HardFork [4] and has a payment channel design at [5]. regards, -John [1] https://github.com/antiochp/grin-rfcs/blob/relative_lock_heights/text/0000-relative-kernels.md [2] https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin-rfcs/pull/19 [3] https://gist.github.com/antiochp/e54fece52dc408d738bf434a14680988 [4] https://github.com/BeamMW/beam/releases/tag/beam-3.0.5654 [5] https://docs.beam.mw/laser_beam.pdf