From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210FCC000E for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:36:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020F7606D9 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:36:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ey4PUoLptwdP for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:36:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E13AA606A7 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 08:36:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id u7so12310420ion.3 for ; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 01:36:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=M6rkU0X7NdcIHXT/JLDskHuV6Xj+uH1aG8gN8dHHnro=; b=pGPYfQULuVQvgmj8ay/qmoHWDRIOjFkSjcZb0bi1xkW/5E84Aa+gGqixC7tBijcFty Gj1ZLM6MMoK6PZo7g+OQJ/yAUBWittpvabX1KsTQTS+28yrQ7iHCqMeEYfF9PMxsvRQX zH1JLrunfn8Q3DFMgO9H1Dy9K7ulVQ4SkG20daYtFouoWlaCeyoiLVlGpGkXiRnNTyCt fWtHFi4d4zSzhLjIRqnet+J8ClAe1pjdxT6QegaNObF+JBvVvTPb6wWLO2Cn20UJPzpZ XpM4cQi63zQrkBwdYrmEIQhvbkRMaDeIuITA7B64cfvc7j99Rrwa/VD1ZEtmw+aD6zCh kHPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=M6rkU0X7NdcIHXT/JLDskHuV6Xj+uH1aG8gN8dHHnro=; b=dKiE/FGPyw4/oqGdI0o9uHCMKPB7X6sdwZ/EO6kOwOPq3XFDi0W5QxyOpcxfMeGQ1S wU16yhi+f0W5rP78DffPmdQ2EnHkVJoelpOxBoyeVQhwo1GcHe/J+gfE9KCvATZvfvm2 byLglXDvSp5XUO3uK2XgF7+jyi4qi6APc+cwzszqjtFNua/TJ9jVW+7L+gq931PspFk4 XLaoUaZbjcu09B1zuNvdMo3pbjNRINu5svj2APd324WE3EuNc13wbwZpAVNZtP6sXGdP naiFpc1SiE1znEDH2r84tx/jRoXJU55W0ByR5+wG6URxqKTr3TTEjMADAXbFWPFl0Nzc OrAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532iFT0V3HHggsQed05bsU0XyZtZ/X52L4wO5F5o8tdaa9JtKGW1 j+Idc5GFcSB0IfNXaxe/6dpJ2jtPKKKkd1c/qkiOW542 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTt5JKOtYv/k08tSY9Ba7VjoqmrmmuHgr1H56gwe3OzrIPmGc7oMupu7rv/1vF1elMb9IRudWedjBG92GWBRU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:120c:: with SMTP id y12mr3168772iot.50.1625301359952; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 01:35:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1eb7b635-094c-a583-7dc0-21cea58ed1fb@achow101.com> <20210703032405.j3mru5rbag5sbfil@ganymede> In-Reply-To: From: Craig Raw Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:35:48 +0200 Message-ID: To: Andrew Chow , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000036862305c633f699" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:38:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposals for Output Script Descriptors X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 08:36:02 -0000 --00000000000036862305c633f699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" There is a downside to using "h"/"H" from a UX perspective - taking up more space and appearing as alphanumeric characters similar to the path numbers, they make derivation paths and descriptors more difficult to read. Also, although not as important, less efficient when making metal backups. On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 7:13 AM Andrew Chow via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On 7/2/21 11:24 PM, David A. Harding wrote: > > Is there any chance we can take this opportunity to make "h"/"H" the > > preferred aliases? Using "'" in bourne-style shells is very > > annoying[1], and I suspect it's also creating unnecessary complications > > elsewhere. > I've updated the text to use "h". > > Alternatives: > > > > - Completely kill "'" (I'd prefer this, but I realize it's complicated > > with descriptors already being used widely). If "h"/"H" are made the > > preferred aliases, maybe it'd be enough to make implementing "'" a > > SHOULD rather than a MUST; this would push implementations towards > > displaying descriptors using the h versions for maximum compatibility. > Since there already are software implementing descriptors, I don't think > we can do this. I'm not sure about making "'" a SHOULD either. > > - Calculate the checksum over s/(h|H)/'/ (again, I know that's > > complicated with descriptors already widely used) > This has been discussed in the past and the conclusion was that the > checksum should be strictly over the string itself. This would allow for > dumb checksum checkers which don't have to be able to parse descriptors > in order to check the checksum. > > Thanks, > Andrew > > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Dave > > > > [1] > https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15740#issuecomment-695815432 > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --00000000000036862305c633f699 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is a downside to using "h"/"H" f= rom a UX perspective - taking up more space and appearing as alphanumeric c= haracters similar to the path numbers, they make derivation paths and descr= iptors more difficult to read. Also, although not as important, less effici= ent when making metal backups.

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 7:13 AM Andrew Chow vi= a bitcoin-dev <= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
On 7/2/21 11:24 PM, David A. Harding w= rote:
> Is there any chance we can take this opportunity to make "h"= /"H" the
> preferred aliases?=C2=A0 Using "'" in bourne-style shell= s is very
> annoying[1], and I suspect it's also creating unnecessary complica= tions
> elsewhere.
I've updated the text to use "h".
> Alternatives:
>
> - Completely kill "'" (I'd prefer this, but I realiz= e it's complicated
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with descriptors already being used widely).=C2=A0 If &qu= ot;h"/"H" are made the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 preferred aliases, maybe it'd be enough to make imple= menting "'" a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SHOULD rather than a MUST; this would push implementation= s towards
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 displaying descriptors using the h versions for maximum c= ompatibility.
Since there already are software implementing descriptors, I don't thin= k
we can do this. I'm not sure about making "'" a SHOULD ei= ther.
> - Calculate the checksum over s/(h|H)/'/ (again, I know that's=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 complicated with descriptors already widely used)
This has been discussed in the past and the conclusion was that the
checksum should be strictly over the string itself. This would allow for dumb checksum checkers which don't have to be able to parse descriptors=
in order to check the checksum.

Thanks,
Andrew

>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dave
>
> [1] https://github.com/bi= tcoin/bitcoin/issues/15740#issuecomment-695815432


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