From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D167A98B for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:21:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f177.google.com (mail-ig0-f177.google.com [209.85.213.177]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 300D4AA for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by igbxm8 with SMTP id xm8so2552811igb.1 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0YWRL7hA6LBQO6SU3xW3liAQBRT9+YEbXpjxSuQLaKY=; b=OZePCIK6iPKyL7x7f/DMcXUAIEBN7V2+lEuifNPXWS96FdMbo1lMsH9yel/YDl+oH3 9mlhdVW0q1+0bvODeujDAhyhgFuRFvD5t9bkNEI6QKNwZEWTaapykDNQDwXS31zMnu0p DKvXxf06osZ6J+tvQYPoWijXG5u3/uNqRge0WFnHsf30BiFWHnhzFpicLNL6IfB1017+ Dr8iSPsdA6qDyneOV+JM9IPmZ3FQwYFgsirURdywr+wb6X5sAvdV9y0XCpTrmjxhKrg7 Vue00QogylDLMEQxwM63ZFZbCyNeKoKvA+SuxB9fwIJig4p00dtz8rKblKyxP4sDj+jA G/yg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.30.101 with SMTP id r5mr17914477igh.35.1447363317609; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.25.18 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201511122110.47665.luke@dashjr.org> References: <5644ECE6.9090304@mattcorallo.com> <201511122012.29966.luke@dashjr.org> <201511122110.47665.luke@dashjr.org> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:21:57 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alex Morcos To: Luke Dashjr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdca97e683d6305245e8841 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:23:35 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Upcoming Transaction Priority Changes X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:21:58 -0000 --047d7bdca97e683d6305245e8841 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To be clear Luke, its not THAT complicated to maintain the mining policy, but preserving the ability of people to place priority based transactions in a limited mempool world is quite complicated. See recently closed #6992. I think the biggest issue with #6357 is being sure the logic doesn't break in future changes. There are a lot of things that need to be updated in the right order when blocks are connected or disconnected. And whats the point of having even that added extra complication if its not easy to place free transactions and starting priority is a decent approximation for mining anyway (txs can just be rebroadcast in the worst case). On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:43:17 PM Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 12, 2015 7:47:50 PM Matt Corallo via bitcoin-de= v > > > wrote: > > >> * Mining code will use starting priority for ease of implementation > > > > > > This should be optional, at least for 0.12. > > > > The ease of implementation is not gained if it's maintained optionally. > > It has come to my attention maintaining the current priority algorithm is > not > even expensive, so I think I'm inclined to NACK using starting priority > altogether. Since I am the mining maintainer for Core, I believe it's > reasonable for me to decide on maintenance tradeoffs... > > Therefore, my goal in this matter will be to review #6357 in depth to be > merged, and follow up with #6898 based on the current default policies. > > > >> * Default block priority size will be 0 > > > > > > We should not be influencing miner policy by changing defaults. > > > > I agree changing policy defaults is meaningless, but in this case it > > is supposed to signal deprecation of the policy option. > > This is a bad idea anyway, since priority is the best metric we have righ= t > now > for ensuring legitimate transactions get mined despite spam attacks. > > Luke > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --047d7bdca97e683d6305245e8841 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To be clear Luke, its not THAT complicated to maintain the= mining policy, but preserving the ability of people to place priority base= d transactions in a limited mempool world is quite complicated.=C2=A0 See r= ecently closed #6992.=C2=A0
I think the biggest issue with #6357 is bei= ng sure the logic doesn't break in future changes.=C2=A0 There are a lo= t of things that need to be updated in the right order when blocks are conn= ected or disconnected.
And whats the point of having even that added ex= tra complication if its not easy to place free transactions and starting pr= iority is a decent approximation for mining anyway (txs can just be rebroad= cast in the worst case).


On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:10 PM= , Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linux= foundation.org> wrote:
On Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:43:17 PM Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wro= te:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-d= ev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 12, 2015 7:47:50 PM Matt Corallo via bitcoi= n-dev
> > wrote:
> >>=C2=A0 * Mining code will use starting priority for ease of im= plementation
> >
> > This should be optional, at least for 0.12.
>
> The ease of implementation is not gained if it's maintained option= ally.

It has come to my attention maintaining the current priority algorit= hm is not
even expensive, so I think I'm inclined to NACK using starting priority=
altogether. Since I am the mining maintainer for Core, I believe it's reasonable for me to decide on maintenance tradeoffs...

Therefore, my goal in this matter will be to review #6357 in depth to be merged, and follow up with #6898 based on the current default policies.

> >>=C2=A0 * Default block priority size will be 0
> >
> > We should not be influencing miner policy by changing defaults. >
> I agree changing policy defaults is meaningless, but in this case it > is supposed to signal deprecation of the policy option.

This is a bad idea anyway, since priority is the best metric we have= right now
for ensuring legitimate transactions get mined despite spam attacks.

Luke
___________________________________= ____________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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