From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A83C002D for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2022 13:11:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56E041604 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2022 13:11:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lkcl.net Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G1fzapB6KePE for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2022 13:11:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:39:37 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from libre-soc.org (libre-soc.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:82:f::1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9659415CA for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2022 13:11:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lkcl.net; s=201607131; h=Content-Type:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:From:In-Reply-To: References:MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=n8a0vyHS50cxMVqUsRlOAjdQpkZKYiG91cMvdxqJ+wc=; b=L9GHeGdwUNF54uAuX2iTVo7fBE rPvNYbbu0BaamQgeQ/l8fNCbHo7q0Y4LT4JlX2zJmdq3tyZvGBp+rr9l/cNw6P1rR9bcVOIytoH7Z JfwOHC5hWzO7L1jCPGM2nntqoZNv6/hY/dgeDPG/h46zWY/wk1/kupAKEallEGFTWXcQ=; Received: from mail-vs1-f52.google.com ([209.85.217.52]) by libre-soc.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nxpQ0-0005Cw-B9 for bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 13:31:44 +0100 Received: by mail-vs1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 67so11504239vsh.2 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 05:31:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531r9aLlrlwQFk/Ym1D9XZD8Cg/ueSfYAxM6jS5g5ERDOK0yokji E4LckE4EomncCgERiMcg9vEBP6g4t8LzoI6ICR8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+JXZLl8/9G9SMGZugLp7HDeAd6nhtPqg3yAII7az5bqggv+kebFgX3V6GEnFzaHqnFflEcl0mV5vm9+HfpLE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:5493:b0:34b:b583:f557 with SMTP id bk19-20020a056102549300b0034bb583f557mr577213vsb.2.1654432303067; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 05:31:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2022 13:31:31 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 13:19:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin-dev Digest, Vol 85, Issue 4 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 13:11:28 -0000 (apologies i am subscribed digest) On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 1:00 PM wrote: > Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 04:18:04 +0000 > From: alicexbt > To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion > > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable > Message-ID: > > Hi Jorge, > > > Misinformation is false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive. > A combination of 'misleading' and 'information'. it's a classic technique that was refined by psy-ops well over 60 years ago. it should come as no surprise at all that it is being systematically deployed to undermine bitcoin. (welcome to the party, all psy-ops teams reading this: i admire your persistence and tenacity. you serve an extremely useful purpose of detecting flaws in the resilience of bitcoin and its development.) a potential solution is Trust Metrics. the most successful open source experiment in that regard was advogato.org by Raph Levien. i expanded it greatly so that any user could specify the "seeds" whom *they* trusted, rather than being forced to utilise the fixed hard-coded user ids in the advogato.org source code (this difference is extremely important for de-centralisation) public declarations of trust, and their propagation through standard Maximum-Flow Graph analysis, helps greatly to filter out the crap. advogato deflected heavy systematic and sustained spam attacks thanks to the simple expedient of users declaring publicly whom they trusted. a more advanced version of the max-flow concept came up a few years later called keynote (RFC2704) the similarity between trust metric evaluation and the bitcoin protocol is so remarkable that i am, frankly, slightly stunned that it was not added right from the start. it is ironic that the lack of integrated trust metric evaluation built-in to the bitcoin protocol is now hampering developers from being able to evaluate whom to trust when it comes to protocol development. l.