public inbox for bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Cc: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 12:53:18 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CEB83B34-6C5B-469E-9914-20940F27EEC0@sprovoost.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <03be4934-f0ff-4b58-880d-861d63a4f970@dashjr.org>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2810 bytes --]


Op 26 apr 2025, om 11:50 heeft Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> het volgende geschreven:
> It should be needless to say, but this idea is utter insanity. Disappointing to see positive responses, and not one sensible reply calling it out yet. The bugs should be fixed, not the abuse embraced. If attackers continue to bypass filters, we can go back to a full whitelist approach. 
> 
Are you proposing a whitelist of authorised public keys? Or a transaction size increase?

Your earlier proposal [0] to whitelist certain script forms is not relevant here, because the Citrea white paper uses unspendable public keys to encode the data that doesn't fit in OP_RETURN.

To stop that, you'd have to introduce a rule that only allows spendable public keys to be put on chain. Afaik, the only way to do that is to require a signature. That would dramatically increase the size of all output scripts.

And that won't fix "spam" either, because you can still grind the first N bits of every public key and/signature, maybe encode things in the nonce, etc.

The cost of that would be trivial for a bridge system. And "art" systems mightly actually like the extra scarcity.

As for your earlier proposals (Ordisrespector, etc), they were not useful in general, because they rely too heavily on having standardness rules go against financial incentives. Only consensus changes can work, but so far you haven't proposed those. Since "spam" is a cat-and-mouse game, and consensus changes take ages to design, implement and roll out, it's also not a viable solution.

Increasing the OP_RETURN limit reduces harm compared to the two alternatives:
1. UTXO set bloating with fake public keys
2. Large scale bypassing of the (default) mempool, which leads to
   a) compact block relay failures (mempool fragmentation)
   b) centralisation

Custom-but-public relay networks like Libre Relay don't cause (2b), but (likely) do cause (2a). So it's not good if Bitcoin Core default policy heavily incentives such an alternative network. That's one reason why -mempoolfullrbf is now a default.

You're also not specifying what problem you're trying to solve. Nor what "damage" is done. If blocks are too big in your opinion, then why not simply propose a block size decrease (again)? I would not expect meaningful support for that either, but at least it's simple.

- Sjors 

[0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29187
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CEB83B34-6C5B-469E-9914-20940F27EEC0%40sprovoost.nl.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3720 bytes --]

  reply	other threads:[~2025-04-26 10:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-04-17 18:52 [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-04-18 12:03 ` Sjors Provoost
2025-04-18 12:54   ` Greg Sanders
2025-04-18 13:06     ` Vojtěch Strnad
2025-04-18 13:29     ` 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-04-18 21:34       ` Antoine Riard
2025-04-20  8:43 ` Peter Todd
2025-04-26  9:50 ` Luke Dashjr
2025-04-26 10:53   ` Sjors Provoost [this message]
2025-04-26 11:35     ` Luke Dashjr
2025-04-26 11:45       ` Sjors Provoost
2025-04-26 12:48       ` Pieter Wuille
2025-04-28 16:20         ` Jason Hughes (wk057)
2025-04-29 14:51           ` Sjors Provoost
2025-04-30 15:37             ` Nagaev Boris
2025-04-30 16:30               ` Sjors Provoost
2025-04-29 19:20           ` Martin Habovštiak
2025-04-30  0:10             ` Jason Hughes
2025-05-01 17:40               ` Andrew Toth
2025-04-30  5:39             ` Chris Guida
2025-04-30 16:37               ` Anthony Towns
2025-05-01  4:57                 ` Chris Guida
2025-05-01 19:33                   ` Nagaev Boris
2025-05-02  6:34                   ` Anthony Towns
2025-05-02 18:29                     ` Peter Todd
2025-05-03  5:14                       ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-05-01  3:01         ` Anthony Towns
2025-05-02 18:56   ` Greg Tonoski
2025-05-05  6:04     ` Bitcoin Error Log
2025-05-01 22:40 ` [bitcoindev] " 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-05-02  0:14   ` PandaCute
2025-05-02 11:16     ` [bitcoindev] " Sjors Provoost
2025-05-02 14:37       ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-05-02 16:43         ` Greg Maxwell
2025-05-02 13:58     ` [bitcoindev] " Bob Burnett
2025-05-02 20:03   ` [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate Position Peter Todd
2025-05-02 22:58     ` [bitcoindev] " Greg Maxwell
2025-05-03  2:02       ` Martin Habovštiak
2025-05-05 21:45       ` Peter Todd
2025-05-05 23:55         ` Greg Maxwell
2025-05-02  6:29 ` [bitcoindev] Re: Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions Greg Maxwell
2025-05-02  9:51   ` Anthony Towns
2025-05-02 17:36     ` Greg Maxwell
2025-05-05  9:18       ` Anthony Towns
2025-05-05 21:34         ` [bitcoindev] Weak blocks give an advantage to large miners Peter Todd
2025-05-06  8:56           ` Sjors Provoost
2025-05-02 20:43     ` [bitcoindev] Re: Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions Peter Todd
2025-05-02 19:04   ` /dev /fd0
2025-05-02 20:10     ` Peter Todd
2025-05-04 20:04       ` Nagaev Boris
2025-05-05 11:42         ` Greg Maxwell
2025-05-05 14:32           ` Nagaev Boris
2025-05-05 21:30         ` Peter Todd
2025-05-05 14:05 ` Greg Maxwell

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=CEB83B34-6C5B-469E-9914-20940F27EEC0@sprovoost.nl \
    --to=sjors@sprovoost.nl \
    --cc=bitcoindev@googlegroups.com \
    --cc=luke@dashjr.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox