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([2601:600:9c00:1d0::250e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y63sm14717312pfy.68.2021.03.02.12.19.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Mar 2021 12:19:42 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Eric Voskuil Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 12:19:41 -0800 Message-Id: References: <202103021857.39275.luke@dashjr.org> In-Reply-To: <202103021857.39275.luke@dashjr.org> To: Luke Dashjr , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D52) Cc: Michael Folkson Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting - Tuesday March 2nd 19:00 UTC on ##uasf IRC channel X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 20:19:44 -0000 I personally don=E2=80=99t like the term 51% attack as applied to censorship= . A miner is free to mine or not mine any transactions it wants (censor). Th= e term attack is better reserved for stealing from someone (reclaiming spend= s using hash power), as it implies a moral distinction. But 51% attack is the term in common use for a majority censor and using it h= elps people understand the mechanism of hash power soft fork enforcement. It= =E2=80=99s not intended as a pejorative.=20 However =E2=80=9Cwithout social support=E2=80=9D is a political term. It con= fuses the actual behavior to imply the mechanism is somehow not the same bec= ause there is some ill-defined level of agreement. e > On Mar 2, 2021, at 10:58, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Tuesday 02 March 2021 18:22:35 Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces via bitcoi= n-dev wrote: >> I'm realizing that a clear advantage of LOT=3Dfalse is that it can happen= >> without the need for a social movement. All that is really needed is the >> convincing of 95% miners. Apathetic users will never notice any kind of >> service disruption no matter the success or failure of the activation. Th= is >> is obviously why it naturally became the default activation method. >=20 > No. Miners enforcing rules without the social support is a 51% attack, not= a=20 > softfork. >=20 >> While LOT=3Dtrue, on the other hand, must be able to 51% the blockchain t= o >> win the apathetic users. But then the reorgs will not be pretty. Or if it= >> ever clearly gets over the 51% hurdle then all apathetic users now need t= o >> scramble to use the rogue client to be safe from reorgs. Either way it's >> disruptive. >=20 > No, LOT=3DTrue doesn't do this. It only happens if miners choose to create= an=20 > invalid chain, which they could do at any time with or without a softfork=20= > involved. >=20 > Luke > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev