It might be as well to keep the archive but disable new posts as
otherwise we create bit-rot for people who linked to posts on
sourceforge.
The list is also archived on mail-archive though.
https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/Adam
On 14 June 2015 at 22:55, Andy Schroder <info@andyschroder.com> wrote:
Hello,
I'd support moving to a Linux Foundation e-mail list. I am also against
google groups. I agree that the gesture of moving indicates that SourceForge
is not playing nice on other issues and that moving this list shows their
behavior is being acknowledged.
I understand your reason for wanting to delete the Source Forge account
(after reading the links). However, the only problem with that is that the
SourceForge archive is the oldest one I've found with some early messages
from Satoshi. Myself finding Bitcoin after its inception, as well as this
mailing list even later on, it's nice to be able to review the archives.
SourceForge's interface to those archives is pretty bad though. I'm not sure
if there is any way to get older messages archived on sites like gmane or
mail-archive? Does anyone know? You mentioned importing the list archive as
part of the migration plan, but I guess is this easy to do from SourceForge?
Andy Schroder
On 06/14/2015 06:12 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote:
Discomfort with Sourceforge
For a while now people have been expressing concern about Sourceforge's
continued hosting of the bitcoin-dev mailing list. Downloads were moved
completely to bitcoin.org after the Sept 2014 hacking incident of the SF
project account. The company's behavior and perceived stability have been
growing to be increasingly questionable.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/gimp_dumps_sourceforge_over_dodgy_ads_and_installer
November 2013: GIMP flees SourceForge over dodgy ads and installer
https://lwn.net/Articles/646118/
May 28th, 2015: SourceForge replacing GIMP Windows downloads
http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/2015/q2/194
June 3rd, 2015: Sourceforge hijacked nmap's old site and downloads.
When this topic came up over the past two years, it seemed that most people
agreed it would be a good idea to move. Someone always suggests Google
Groups as the replacement host. Google is quickly shot down as too
controversial in this community, and it becomes an even more difficult
question as to who else should host it. Realizing this is not so simple,
discussion then dies off until the next time somebody brings it up.
http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/thread/1943127.DBnVxmfOIh%401337h4x0r/#msg34192607
Somebody brought it up again this past week.
It seems logical that an open discussion list is not a big deal to continue
to be hosted on Sourceforge, as there isn’t much they could do to screw it
up. I personally think moving it away now would be seen as a gesture that
we do not consider their behavior to be acceptable. There are also some
benefits in being hosted elsewhere, at an entity able to professionally
maintain their infrastructure while also being neutral to the content.
Proposal: Move Bitcoin Dev List to a Neutral Competent Entity
Bitcoin is a global infrastructure development project where it would be
politically awkward for any of the existing Bitcoin companies or orgs to
host due to questions it would raise about perceived political control.Â
For example, consider a bizarro parallel universe where MtGox was the
inventor of Bitcoin, where they hosted its development infrastructure and
dev list under their own name. Even if what they published was 100%
technically and ideologically equivalent to the Bitcoin we know in our
dimension, most people wouldn't have trusted it merely due to appearances
and it would have easily gone nowhere.
I had a similar thought process last week when sidechains code was
approaching release. Sidechains, like Bitcoin itself, are intended to be a
generic piece of infrastructure (like ethernet?) that anyone can build upon
and use. We thought about Google Groups or existing orgs that already host
various open source infrastructure discussion lists like the IETF or the
Linux Foundation. Google is too controversial in this community, and the
IETF is seen as possibly too politically fractured. The Linux Foundation
hosts a bunch of infrastructure lists and it seems that nobody in the Open
Source industry considers them to be particularly objectionable. I talked
with LF about the idea of hosting generic Bitcoin-related infrastructure
development lists. They agreed as OSS infrastructure dev is already within
their charter, so early this week sidechains-dev list began hosting there.
From the perspective of our community, for bitcoin-dev it seems like a great
fit. Why? While they are interested in supporting general open source
development, the LF has literally zero stake in this. In addition to
neutrality, they seem to be suitable as a competent host. They have
full-time sysadmins maintaining their infrastructure including the Mailman
server. They are soon upgrading to Mailman 3, which means mailing lists
would benefit from the improved archive browser. I am not personally
familiar with HyperKitty, but the point here is they are a stable non-profit
entity who will competently maintain and improve things like their Mailman
deployment (a huge improvement over the stagnant Sourceforge). It seems
that LF would be competent, neutral place to host dev lists for the
long-term.
To be clear, this proposal is only about hosting the discussion list. The
LF would have no control over the Bitcoin Project, as no single entity
should.
Proposed Action Plan
Discuss this openly within this community. Above is one example of a great
neutral and competent host. If the technical leaders here can agree to
move to a particular neutral host then we do it.
Migration: The current list admins become the new list admins. We import
the entire list archive into the new host's archives for user convenience.
http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/ Â Kill bitcoin-list and
bitcoin-test. Very few people actually use it. Actually, let's delete
the entire Bitcoin Sourceforge project as its continued existence serves no
purpose and it only confuses people who find it. By deletion, nobody has
to monitor it for a repeat of the Sept 2014 hacking incident or GIMP-type
hijacking?
The toughest question would be the appropriateness of auto-importing the
subscriber list to another list server, as mass imports have a tendency to
upset people.
Thoughts?
Warren Togami
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development