From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VBWUT-0008C6-3Q for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:55:53 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail10.mayo.edu ([129.176.212.47]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1VBWUR-0006Ek-Dq for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:55:53 +0000 Received: from roedlp004a.mayo.edu (HELO mail10.mayo.edu) ([129.176.158.14]) by ironport10-dlp.mayo.edu with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2013 15:22:29 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAEp9ElKBsNQ1/2dsb2JhbABRCIMFNVG/MoEkFnSCJAEBAQMBAQEBNxQgEAcGAQgHCgMBAQEBCgISCSgGAQkBFAkJAQQTCBIDBIddAwkGDJNyl0INV4EpjWSBLwwEgQYCBjiDFXcDlR1egxaLAIUogxyBcTk Received: from mhro1a.mayo.edu ([129.176.212.53]) by ironport10.mayo.edu with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2013 15:22:28 -0500 Received: from MSGPEXCEI06A.mfad.mfroot.org (msgpexcei06a.mayo.edu [129.176.249.167]) by mhro1a.mayo.edu with ESMTP id BT-MMP-25882975 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:22:28 -0500 Received: from MSGPEXCEI26B.mfad.mfroot.org ([169.254.4.24]) by MSGPEXCEI06A.mfad.mfroot.org ([169.254.3.69]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.004; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:22:28 -0500 From: "Goss, Brian C., M.D." To: "'bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net'" Thread-Topic: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind Thread-Index: Ac6dGdKp7cPY9D7lS6qFUPkResvhig== Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:22:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.128.209.13] x-esetresult: clean, is OK x-esetid: F99C793ED61C3634A3DA21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -2.8 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 LOTS_OF_MONEY Huge... sums of money X-Headers-End: 1VBWUR-0006Ek-Dq Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:55:53 -0000 What if we have a massive (like many orders of magnitude) drop in network h= arsh rate? Might such a function be useful to salvage the (non-functioning= ) network? Same for IRC bootstrapping. How do we pick ourselves up off the= ground in case of the equivalent of a great depression in network hash rat= e (or some jerk spending $100M just to drive the difficulty up and then tur= ning his hardware off?). -----Original Message----- From: bitcoin-development-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:bitcoin-dev= elopment-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of bitcoin-development-re= quest@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:16 PM To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Bitcoin-development Digest, Vol 27, Issue 28 Send Bitcoin-development mailing list submissions to bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net You can reach the person managing the list at bitcoin-development-owner@lists.sourceforge.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "R= e: Contents of Bitcoin-development digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Jeff Garzik) 2. Re: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Frank F) 3. Re: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Luke-Jr) 4. Re: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Pieter Wuille) 5. Re: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Matt Corallo) 6. Re: Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind (Frank F) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:27:01 -0400 From: Jeff Garzik Subject: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind To: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2905 proposes to remov= e "getwork" RPC from bitcoind: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork On mainnet, almost everybody uses a pool (and therefore, not "getwork" directly to bitcoind). Those few who solo mine use a pool server to talk t= o bitcoind via "getblocktemplate" or other means. Tests show that attempts= to solo mine on mainnet via "getwork" lead to delays and problems. On testnet, getwork has a better chance of continuing to work. Nevertheless, the same tools (open source pool servers or p2pool) are avail= able for testnet, obviating the continued need to support getwork. However, at one time, getwork to bitcoind was widely used. I wanted to pok= e the audience, to gauge response to removing "getwork." If a driving use = case remains of which we're unaware, speak up, please. We don't want to br= eak anybody needlessly. -- Jeff Garzik Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:09:41 -0500 From: Frank F Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind Cc: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" I strongly object to removing the only mechanism that allows anyone to say that bitcoin is p2p, in the truest sense of the word. Moves like this that favor only the pool operators and private mining interests are signs that bitcoin is headed towards a monopoly/cartel model, and that would be a tragic outcome for something that holds a great promise. Nobody knows what mining will look like in the future, and denying the individual novice the ability to mine at a small scale, even if we may think it is inefficient now, is not a good path to start down. If there are technical problems with getwork, maybe they should be addressed and fixed instead of outright abandoned. On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2905 proposes to > remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork > > On mainnet, almost everybody uses a pool (and therefore, not "getwork" > directly to bitcoind). Those few who solo mine use a pool server to > talk to bitcoind via "getblocktemplate" or other means. Tests show > that attempts to solo mine on mainnet via "getwork" lead to delays and > problems. > > On testnet, getwork has a better chance of continuing to work. > Nevertheless, the same tools (open source pool servers or p2pool) are > available for testnet, obviating the continued need to support > getwork. > > However, at one time, getwork to bitcoind was widely used. I wanted > to poke the audience, to gauge response to removing "getwork." If a > driving use case remains of which we're unaware, speak up, please. We > don't want to break anybody needlessly. > > -- > Jeff Garzik > Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist > BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and > AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, > analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. > Visit us today! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48897511&iu=3D/4140/ostg.= clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --=20 *MONEY IS OVER!* IF YOU WANT IT =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D The causes of my servitude can be traced to the tyranny of money. -Serj Tankian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:13:00 +0000 From: "Luke-Jr" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <201308192013.02806.luke@dashjr.org> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-15" On Monday, August 19, 2013 8:09:41 PM Frank F wrote: > I strongly object to removing the only mechanism that allows anyone to sa= y > that bitcoin is p2p, in the truest sense of the word. Moves like this tha= t > favor only the pool operators and private mining interests are signs that > bitcoin is headed towards a monopoly/cartel model, and that would be a > tragic outcome for something that holds a great promise. Nobody knows wha= t > mining will look like in the future, and denying the individual novice th= e > ability to mine at a small scale, even if we may think it is inefficient > now, is not a good path to start down. >=20 > If there are technical problems with getwork, maybe they should be > addressed and fixed instead of outright abandoned. You missed getblocktemplate. It does everything getwork did and more. Individual solo miners aren't being locked out at all. This is just removal= of=20 a protocol that has been obsolete for well over a year now. Luke ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:14:36 +0200 From: Pieter Wuille Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind To: Frank F Cc: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Frank F wrote: > I strongly object to removing the only mechanism that allows anyone to sa= y > that bitcoin is p2p, in the truest sense of the word. Moves like this tha= t > favor only the pool operators and private mining interests are signs that > bitcoin is headed towards a monopoly/cartel model, and that would be a > tragic outcome for something that holds a great promise. Nobody knows wha= t > mining will look like in the future, and denying the individual novice th= e > ability to mine at a small scale, even if we may think it is inefficient > now, is not a good path to start down. > > If there are technical problems with getwork, maybe they should be addres= sed > and fixed instead of outright abandoned. They were addressed and fixed in a successor API, getblocktemplate. It's even more decentralization-friendly, as it allows the caller to see what transactions the daemon is trying to put into a block, and even modify it. The suggestion here is not to remove functionality - only to remove an obsolete API for doing so. --=20 Pieter ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:15:08 -0400 From: Matt Corallo Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind To: Jeff Garzik Cc: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: <1376943308.27037.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" ACK, I see no reason to leave broken things in that a) arent necessary and b) no one has the developer resources to fix. Matt On Mon, 2013-08-19 at 12:27 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2905 proposes to > remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork >=20 > On mainnet, almost everybody uses a pool (and therefore, not "getwork" > directly to bitcoind). Those few who solo mine use a pool server to > talk to bitcoind via "getblocktemplate" or other means. Tests show > that attempts to solo mine on mainnet via "getwork" lead to delays and > problems. >=20 > On testnet, getwork has a better chance of continuing to work. > Nevertheless, the same tools (open source pool servers or p2pool) are > available for testnet, obviating the continued need to support > getwork. >=20 > However, at one time, getwork to bitcoind was widely used. I wanted > to poke the audience, to gauge response to removing "getwork." If a > driving use case remains of which we're unaware, speak up, please. We > don't want to break anybody needlessly. >=20 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:16:17 -0500 From: Frank F Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: remove "getwork" RPC from bitcoind Cc: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Thank you for setting me straight. Please forgive my ignorance. On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Pieter Wuille wro= te: > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Frank F wrote: > > I strongly object to removing the only mechanism that allows anyone to > say > > that bitcoin is p2p, in the truest sense of the word. Moves like this > that > > favor only the pool operators and private mining interests are signs th= at > > bitcoin is headed towards a monopoly/cartel model, and that would be a > > tragic outcome for something that holds a great promise. Nobody knows > what > > mining will look like in the future, and denying the individual novice > the > > ability to mine at a small scale, even if we may think it is inefficien= t > > now, is not a good path to start down. > > > > If there are technical problems with getwork, maybe they should be > addressed > > and fixed instead of outright abandoned. > > They were addressed and fixed in a successor API, getblocktemplate. > It's even more decentralization-friendly, as it allows the caller to > see what transactions the daemon is trying to put into a block, and > even modify it. > > The suggestion here is not to remove functionality - only to remove an > obsolete API for doing so. > > -- > Pieter > --=20 *MONEY IS OVER!* IF YOU WANT IT =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D The causes of my servitude can be traced to the tyranny of money. -Serj Tankian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... ------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and=20 AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights,=20 analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management.=20 Visit us today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48897511&iu=3D/4140/ostg.cl= ktrk ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development End of Bitcoin-development Digest, Vol 27, Issue 28 ***************************************************