From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0FA7C013A for ; Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:02:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D3F86A8F for ; Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:02:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vd9L7TmJobsq for ; Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:02:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:09:40 by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-41104.protonmail.ch (mail-41104.protonmail.ch [185.70.41.104]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 835AA86A37 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:02:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-03.mail-europe.com (mail-03.mail-europe.com [91.134.188.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail-41104.protonmail.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3058923F17CF for ; Sat, 16 Jan 2021 02:52:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail-41104.protonmail.ch; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fitti.io header.i=@fitti.io header.b="OxrbEwDZ" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 02:52:34 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitti.io; s=protonmail3; t=1610765563; bh=EePJB2+b1y9hbwux3IzmhgatRosn+fgc7FuE3vsd/WM=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=OxrbEwDZi8wmPsrWIfGFEeRllROJhUB/PNVWKI9FkuMv1SccoSRlhmVF0T83eO1FH 0ShtY0D7ACAuBg/mcCqHtB7oK4rNoXn99H/xRqDCKUEpjJDuGigXU50jnrONSX0GAu +TGblQoWDhiOQCzML13Yb/MrQLWluHFRlpVlQ27sE2J8Z8yr7KodSENAhAQRe8IXdU SeFb2ulXjXhGBpkkArZY18Iwd0d4oc3WT3fMv+seG8smOQMmd3Zi/L9UkqM2GXJoYR RrY3b81isvGgsNU0cAXKtQDeaJKJHIe/X/AQC6l+qO7tg7HqDQ86bDmsPkC2hxpGCf wVznOCidn5shg== To: Chris Belcher , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion From: dev_f Reply-To: dev_f Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2b8ba39f-8fe9-8800-b8e6-47ca263774d5@riseup.net> References: <2b8ba39f-8fe9-8800-b8e6-47ca263774d5@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="---------------------2e6662e3881502818242b8f9e2b6fb2b"; charset=utf-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:13:12 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] PayJoin adoption X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 03:02:41 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------2e6662e3881502818242b8f9e2b6fb2b Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------bec6bee05b79bfb9601bcf256fe73266 -----------------------bec6bee05b79bfb9601bcf256fe73266 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Hey Chris, I assume that a major reason for the lack of adoption is the lack of visib= ility. I personally first found out about PayJoin when using BTCPayServer for a d= onation and being told by the site that PayJoin was available (https://hrf.org/don= ate-bitcoin/payjoin/). The wiki page you created is a good starting point. Bringing up the issue = of implementing PayJoin directly with the companies / in the respective software repos see= ms like it would be a strong first step for greater adoption. Gets more eyes on it in gener= al. (Directly contributing to the software by writing an implementation is obv= iously the most helpful, though clearly harder.) As a second option, pushing merchants towards accepting Bitcoin specifical= ly via software like BTCPayServer, which already supports PayJoin, might be immen= sely helpful when Bitcoin adoption itself rises. Fitti Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M= essage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 1:07 AM, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev = wrote: > PayJoin is an exciting bitcoin privacy technology which has the > = > potential to damage the ability of blockchain surveillance to spy on > = > bitcoin users and destroy bitcoin's fungibility. A protocol standard has > = > already been defined and implemented by a couple of projects such as > = > BTCPayServer, Wasabi Wallet, JoinMarket and BlueWallet. > = > I've made a wiki page tracking adoption: > = > https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adoption > = > It is similar to the Bech32 adoption page. > = > Recently a UK bitcoin exchange shut down due to new regulations, with > = > the owner writing a very interesting and relevant blog post that I'll > = > quote here: > = > > you=E2=80=99re considered suspicious if you used a marketplace and not= an > = > exchange. Coinjoin counts as high risk. Gambling is high risk. As you > = > use entities that are paranoid about keeping their coins clean and > = > adhering to all the regulations, your risk scores will continue to > = > increase and without you even knowing why, your deposits will become > = > rejected, you may be asked to supply documents or lose the coins, your > = > account may become suspended without you having any clue what you did > = > wrong. And quite possibly you didn=E2=80=99t do anything wrong. But that= won=E2=80=99t > = > matter. > = > > The goal post, the risk score threshold will keep moving along this > = > trend until the point where you will be afraid of using your personal > = > wallet, donating to someone online, receiving bitcoins from anywhere > = > except for regulated exchanges. At that point, crypto will be akin to a > = > regular bank account. You won=E2=80=99t have a bitcoin wallet, you will = have > = > accounts to websites. > = > https://blog.bitbargain.com/post/638504004285054976/goodbye > = > If we want bitcoin to fulfill its dream of a permissionless money for > = > the internet then we'll have to work on this. What can we do to increase > = > adoption of PayJoin? > = > bitcoin-dev mailing list > = > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > = > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev -----------------------bec6bee05b79bfb9601bcf256fe73266 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; filename="publickey - dev@fitti.io - 0xC413574E.asc"; name="publickey - dev@fitti.io - 0xC413574E.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - dev@fitti.io - 0xC413574E.asc"; name="publickey - dev@fitti.io - 0xC413574E.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBPcGVuUEdQLmpz IHY0LjEwLjkNCkNvbW1lbnQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vb3BlbnBncGpzLm9yZw0KDQp4ak1FWGV3QkpoWUpL d1lCQkFIYVJ3OEJBUWRBdEJ0aTU4NXBHSEdLc3BjN2sybG5KSUpLcW9oeTlTanUNCnQ0NW83Q0J3 aFdQTkcyUmxka0JtYVhSMGFTNXBieUE4WkdWMlFHWnBkSFJwTG1sdlBzSjNCQkFXQ2dBZg0KQlFK ZDdBRW1CZ3NKQndnREFnUVZDQW9DQXhZQ0FRSVpBUUliQXdJZUFRQUtDUkMzNXA0UWxpTEM0Q3cx DQpBUG9EWGgvVEI0MjdrcjJJUUxyb2NDNDR4bStLdVo2cUNFOHR1Tzh1OGpIMWJnRCtQMGgrLzUw ZXJjbkUNCmVSWVlTS3J2KzUzR0orTDZBMzkrWmZ4YVprbW5UZ3JPT0FSZDdBRW1FZ29yQmdFRUFa ZFZBUVVCQVFkQQ0KVkxLZ3BVamZoN0lkMDRub1VJRk4weTNGdjFJVWpTLzJpZ1NTeUV0aHIzVURB UWdId21FRUdCWUlBQWtGDQpBbDNzQVNZQ0d3d0FDZ2tRdCthZUVKWWl3dUF4cEFFQWxwWlRES3Nh cHE2ckJWR1NGN3ZCWXBBeHBRQTANClZubDlQMDVSMk5kVlp1QUEvMHNQRGVrTFlubjlBL09OeHN1 bENlMGdrTjZBd3pRVkR0aENUOTVtOGxJSQ0KPW5OWjMNCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBQVUJMSUMgS0VZ IEJMT0NLLS0tLS0NCg== -----------------------bec6bee05b79bfb9601bcf256fe73266-- -----------------------2e6662e3881502818242b8f9e2b6fb2b Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wnUEARYKAAYFAmACVPIAIQkQt+aeEJYiwuAWIQTEE1dOBidk60R4yc635p4Q liLC4FPDAP4uF996O2ks15DxESETPrbLNnODv6ovASm9oDYS+ABRqAEA+CbB irFYzNdtVUS3JQLsp7x3fpsTWrCpAZR79j/88AA= =yXAr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----------------------2e6662e3881502818242b8f9e2b6fb2b--