From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37E1C0012 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817BC8140B for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tutanota.de Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PQEw42HY4SKF for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from w1.tutanota.de (w1.tutanota.de [81.3.6.162]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C8288141C for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w1.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D59AFA03AD; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1640252522; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:Sender; bh=gKWoQoH9BNHdhsXvjGsFVYKKtJsmF4iwAJe+lEDHCvI=; b=Dkn1pWdWmhkmZ80djEnwFTn0xs0XL8c8KnUFgNDTLQVxEQ0553ktMWbMUG8fiM+O I1f22lNCfKwj24czrWGqR0BxsP8PICBLp205p4iNaI09LfB0dgeHnDxuwSo2piQSNKv sMM29A8r2JkKzO31ZBb53El4UXn8PEwUadUTLngfWanN8CgQyiHJvbG91cKLAv/9EAz YmH1psFC1e3fiXubpui537Ph3CPNHFdpxPtN3ogFYhO11H/ZvWoBAb5+fLa1zuvpqa2 Z+c4phgqcJBhj7dP7yBKWcWBusyoyMVtzQjAYSO21jXyyWDlY9++vUfqYmNJFp2C2Rw 3p6C+W7CBQ== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 10:42:02 +0100 (CET) From: Prayank To: Jeremy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_59922_77343843.1640252522170" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 10:23:33 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Bitcoin Advent Calendar] What's Smart about Smart Contracts X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:42:06 -0000 ------=_Part_59922_77343843.1640252522170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeremy, > Here's the day 6 post: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/03/advent-6/, the topic is why smart contracts (in extended form) may be a critical precursor to securing Bitcoin's future rather than something we should do after making the base layer more robust. There are few comparisons in this post and links that I consider misleading= or incomplete. I had already tweeted this but such discussions are better = archived here: Difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum that is not mentioned on the websit= e which should be considered while looking at fees: 1. Size of blocks added= to chain everyday (600 MB) 2. Block limit (500 MB per 10 mins) 3. UTXO vs = Account model 4. Failed transactions that pay fees (50k per day) 5. Will th= ese fancy smart contracts work without nodes? No. Where are these nodes run= ning? AWS and Infura has nice articles to highlight their importance 6. Who= is paying the fees? Stablecoins, DEX, NFT platforms, CEX and VCs There can be lot of other differences that affect the fee market including = lot of users in Bitcoin obsessed=C2=A0with supply and hodling. Things that = have changed in last few years: 1. Darknet markets using Monero 2. Stableco= ins stopped using Omni and lot of alternatives exist right now 3. Most of t= he transactions are related to exchanges. They have started using their own= tokens, less exchanges support layer 2 for Bitcoin and users are forced to= withdraw some altcoin even if they need bitcoin. 4. Newbies are reading in= fluencers like Elon Musk and happy with their doggy coins to get rich quick= /rekt. 5. Bitcoin users or influencers declared DeFi a scam and even sidech= ains like Liquid, Rootstock do not qualify their purity tests. Projects lik= e DLCs are still not used in any projects with good volume. --=20 Prayank A3B1 E430 2298 178F ------=_Part_59922_77343843.1640252522170 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeremy,

>= Here's the day 6 post: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/03/advent-6/, the
topic is why smart contracts (in extended form) may be a crit= ical precursor
to securing Bitcoin's future rath= er than something we should do after
making the = base layer more robust.

There are few comparisons in this post and links that I consider mislea= ding or incomplete. I had already tweeted this but such discussions are bet= ter archived here:

D= ifference between Bitcoin and Ethereum that is not mentioned on the website= which should be considered while looking at fees: 1. Size= of blocks added to chain everyday (600 MB) 2. Block limit (500 MB per 10 m= ins) 3. UTXO vs Account model 4. Failed transactions that pay fees (50k per= day) 5. Will these fancy smart contracts work without nodes? No. Where are= these nodes running? AWS and Infura has nice articles to highlight their i= mportance 6. Who is paying the fees? Stablecoins, DEX, NFT platforms, CEX a= nd VCs

There = can be lot of other differences that affect the fee market including lot of= users in Bitcoin obsessed with supply and hodling. Things that have c= hanged in last few years: 1. Darknet markets using Monero 2. Stablecoins st= opped using Omni and lot of alternatives exist right now 3. Most of the tra= nsactions are related to exchanges. They have started using their own token= s, less exchanges support layer 2 for Bitcoin and users are forced to withd= raw some altcoin even if they need bitcoin. 4. Newbies are reading influenc= ers like Elon Musk and happy with their doggy coins to get rich quick/rekt.= 5. Bitcoin users or influencers declared DeFi a scam and even sidechains l= ike Liquid, Rootstock do not qualify their purity tests. Projects like DLCs= are still not used in any projects with good volume.


--
Prayank

A3B1 E430 2298 178F
------=_Part_59922_77343843.1640252522170--