From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816D7C0012 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A25D60EAA for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tutanota.de Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wnvjPmiO9BfN for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from w1.tutanota.de (w1.tutanota.de [81.3.6.162]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBB0E60AF5 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w1.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619B3FA0302; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1640268553; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:Sender; bh=6QQKiGJpPB9ZSy0yKMT10GN3O0JI+0kViFRd+EEfYH4=; b=YtXsOJVRtosYMFZdwejefV6wz+pkl7Zq5tlEsHST+H3h4q9hR8UfFvvSMoZ3NPV+ sO+jcGROVHXp6BwllkZfCM/tL/Aru8UWswSUp95s2ubyfcjoF4dKNec5n0F+3+9LMbH 6rzoBGql9tavPylO3bXpmnp35guBsvTxPCGL0YpVpHIcd3urhO4Tu7W0v4GkbPKT6tE tG2rfLTKkLRi/g7QPXhKFHlO9YaDXaOOSxScxsEEmbwnpmFp7iL/9T6P+i7Xkm593Kf MjRevXNhtTCxl6FI+AAWOBgwQcohrIJnx6MnLaskBJ+qwqSDi5KuQZnKUs0Wk8uoMeu CTRu04Tbfw== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 15:09:13 +0100 (CET) From: Prayank To: Jeremy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_74314_264401429.1640268553342" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:38:21 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Bitcoin Advent Calendar] A Defense of Having Fun (and maybe staying poor) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:09:18 -0000 ------=_Part_74314_264401429.1640268553342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeremy, > Eugene just dropped a project he=E2=80=99s been working on, and it=E2=80= =99s really freakin=E2=80=99 cool. He basically implemented a human v. ches= s engine in Solidity that mints beautiful interactive NFTs of representatio= ns of the contract=E2=80=99s internal states. Not sure why NFT is involved here but experiment looks interesting. Maybe E= ugene should try few things on Lightning as well: https://lists.linuxfounda= tion.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-December/019619.html > Why isn=E2=80=99t Eugene working on Bitcoin? There can be many reasons however Eugene can answer this question better. > Working on Bitcoin is can be fun. But mostly it=E2=80=99s not. My post ye= sterday? Theone describing new techniques to make Bitcoin more decentralize= d? I had a lotof fun writing it. And then someone claimed that my work is = =E2=80=9Cvery dangerous=E2=80=9D toBitcoin. I don't support what someone said about you in IRC however people do say cr= azy things online which has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be diff= erent things for everyone. > Bitcoin development has a bit of a burnout problem, with multiple contrib= utors stepping down their engagement recently. A likely cause is the strugg= le it takes to ship even the smallest features, not to mention the monument= al effort it takes to ship a single large project. I am not sure if this is the reason for people who will be less active in B= itcoin development now. And its a part of life, people will come and go. Sh= ow must go on. There will always be another developer who is more passionat= e and got more ideas to contribute. Funding in open source projects is an i= ssue which exists outside Bitcoin as well and it is being addresses by seve= ral individuals and organizations. > It=E2=80=99s hard to tell people, especially younger folk just entering t= he space, to work on Bitcoin full-time. What I say is as follows: It is hard but not impossible. I tried recently in a meetup in India. Ether= eum is not the answer to all the problems in the worlds. If someone has iss= ues with Bitcoin development, they can be solved. > I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99m going to convince you here to care abou= t NFTs. But I am =E2=80=93hopefully =E2=80=93 going to convince you to care= about NFTs the phenomenon. To be honest, its the trend right now and people care about it to get rich.= There is nothing new or innovative about it.=20 > For example, scaling challenge in Ethereum have led to the development of= Zero Knowledge Roll-Ups, privacy issues things like Tornado Cash, and more= . Rollups are memes and there are several articles, threads, research etc. to= read about this. Most of their implementations are not even decentralized.= Tornado Cash is not good privacy and even became worse after their governa= nce token. --=20 Prayank A3B1 E430 2298 178F ------=_Part_74314_264401429.1640268553342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeremy,

>= Eugene just dropped a project he=E2=80=99s been working on, and it=E2=80= =99s really freakin=E2=80=99 cool. He basically implemented a human v. ches= s engine in Solidity that mints beautiful interactive NFTs of representatio= ns of the contract=E2=80=99s internal states.
Not sure why NFT is involved here but experiment = looks interesting. Maybe Eugene should try few things on Lightning as well:= https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev= /2021-December/019619.html

> Why isn=E2=80=99t Eugene working on Bitcoin?

There can be many reasons however = Eugene can answer this question better.

> Working on Bitcoin is can be fun. But mostly it=E2= =80=99s not. My post yesterday? The one describing new techniques to make Bitcoin more decentralized? I had a l= ot of fun writing it. And then someone claimed that my work is =E2=80=9Cvery d= angerous=E2=80=9D to Bitcoin.

I don't sup= port what someone said about you in IRC however people do say crazy things = online which has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be different thing= s for everyone.

>= Bitcoin development has a bit of a burnout problem, with multiple contribu= tors stepping down their engagement recently. A likely cause is the struggl= e it takes to ship even the smallest features, not to mention the monumenta= l effort it takes to ship a single large project.

I am not sure if t= his is the reason for people who will be less active in Bitcoin development= now. And its a part of life, people will come and go. Show must go on. The= re will always be another developer who is more passionate and got more ide= as to contribute. Funding in open source projects is an issue which exists = outside Bitcoin as well and it is being addresses by several individuals an= d organizations.

> It= =E2=80=99s hard to tell people, especially younger folk just entering the s= pace, to work on Bitcoin full-time. What I say is as follows:

It is hard but not impossible. I = tried recently in a meetup in India. Ethereum is not the answer to all the = problems in the worlds. If someone has issues with Bitcoin development, the= y can be solved.

>= ; I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99m going to convince you here to care abou= t NFTs. But I am =E2=80=93 hopefully =E2=80=93 going to convince you to care about NFTs the phenomenon= .

To be honest, its = the trend right now and people care about it to get rich. There is nothing = new or innovative about it.

> For example, scaling challenge in Ethereum have led to the d= evelopment of Zero Knowledge Roll-Ups, privacy issues things like Tornado C= ash, and more.

Rollu= ps are memes and there are several articles, threads, research etc. to read= about this. Most of their implementations are not even decentralized. Torn= ado Cash is not good privacy and even became worse after their governance t= oken.


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Prayank

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