From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFB3C002F for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7435E40217 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tutanota.de Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jsn8pri5qQWa for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from w1.tutanota.de (w1.tutanota.de [81.3.6.162]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A3A94020E for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w1.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FAEFA0D2A; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:30 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1642471050; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:Sender; bh=i6IG+fUDDE9iRLy1iwUq5iTz/TxRhtvolgLoCiulP5g=; b=v5lxggkl6FgSw9A6qVf+y6Ba8SVSF5c5OFF6ppEZgEvv7D/CqDNngCu7WgaKWikW F0IEpyVPa6N5iA8053Tmg6UIKITQ3hPJaY0f4X9FTdq0CupLMoe9/1C9wbd58CtQlI6 XRqhFAEbGO1RVIDIWXhtOQGxbXPyQPaoi5ljGJoSscNYhzbj0nvgp/lVGWXkJH8roOF kDtAmiE6rOjj6kwkqOnRVntnvOz5Mi70c04yXyVpoD4Il7GsKJoqouVvkSAnG3Enra5 j4z6HfFHzPoRgrxb6lunQn6areCct8oSYsEpemzFAtJKU+wt1uxNndYlWLMTjUCLp5I bZLAEXOClA== Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 02:57:30 +0100 (CET) From: Prayank To: pete@petertodd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_331500_1870845089.1642471050921" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 09:46:20 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Stumbling into a contentious soft fork activation attempt X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 01:57:34 -0000 ------=_Part_331500_1870845089.1642471050921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, > that current lacks compelling use-cases clearly beneficial to all users All the use cases shared in below links look compelling enough to me and we can do anything that a programmer could think of using such restrictions: https://utxos.org/uses/ https://rubin.io/archive/ > I don't think CTV in its current form makes that case sufficiently, and the technical details are lacking. CTV cannot be compared to segwit or taproot. We are expecting different things in that case. CTV is trying to do add basic covenants in Bitcoin that would help all Bitcoin users. Most important thing missing in lot of conversations is the low demand for block space which affects everyone who understands importance of fees in long term. Right now fee rates only spike during peak bull markets which indicate the only use case is speculation and this can be improved if developers could do better things with Bitcoin smart contracts. This would also ensure that we don't end up with something really contentious in future that changes supply. > DoS Attacks I think this was already answered by Jeremy and pull request to add related information is also merged: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1272 -- Prayank A3B1 E430 2298 178F ------=_Part_331500_1870845089.1642471050921 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Peter,

> = that current lacks compelling use-cases clearly beneficial to all users
=

All the use cases share= d in below links look compelling enough to me and we can do anything that a= programmer could think of using such restrictions:

https://utxos.org/uses/

https://rubin.io/archive/

> I don't think CTV in its current form makes that c= ase sufficiently, and the technical details are lacking.

CTV cannot be compared to segwit or taproo= t. We are expecting different things in that case. CTV is trying to do add = basic covenants in Bitcoin that would help all Bitcoin users. Most importan= t thing missing in lot of conversations is the low demand for block space w= hich affects everyone who understands importance of fees in long term. Righ= t now fee rates only spike during peak bull markets which indicate the only= use case is speculation and this can be improved if developers could do be= tter things with Bitcoin smart contracts.

This would also ensure that we don't end up with some= thing really contentious in future that changes supply.

> DoS Attacks

I think this was already answered by Jer= emy and pull request to add related information is also merged:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips= /pull/1272


--
Prayank

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