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[109.224.244.30]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 586e51a60fabf-44308ebbcccsi100481fac.7.2026.06.16.03.46.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 16 Jun 2026 03:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of somber.night@protonmail.com designates 109.224.244.30 as permitted sender) client-ip=109.224.244.30; Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2026 10:46:33 +0000 To: bitcoin-dev-ml.void867@slmail.me From: "'SomberNight' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: "bitcoindev@googlegroups.com" Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Removal of BIP 125 RBF signalling in wallet transactions Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <178159635281.7.13516081672246118406.1420460464@slmail.me> References: <212d5db3-7521-4afd-a551-fda8a6ef09c9n@googlegroups.com> <0710406e-e91a-480e-82e4-938d1894f66d@murch.one> <178159635281.7.13516081672246118406.1420460464@slmail.me> Feedback-ID: 3205679:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 044f280799701468f20c21acbdb10876e7b52c26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: somber.night@protonmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=OgTsJqjb; spf=pass (google.com: domain of somber.night@protonmail.com designates 109.224.244.30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=somber.night@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com X-Original-From: SomberNight Reply-To: SomberNight Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi void867, (Replying to list as well. Original email quoted in full below.) > It is interesting to use the input sequence number as a field to > signal whether a transaction can be replaced between several wallets > sharing the same seed. > However, this seems like a fingerprinting vector. You are of course right this behaviour is a (~small) fingerprinting vector. > I wonder whether it would be better to use a database field for the > wallet transaction to indicate whether a transaction is permitted to > be replaced. Storing the signal bit in a local database, and letting the wallet do RBF i= f its local database has the tx marked as being locally-originated, would m= ostly work. (1) The tradeoff is that while with our current approach (storing signal bi= t on-chain) where any device is allowed to RBF the most-common simple walle= t transactions (that set nSequence to MAX-2), that would not be the case wi= th the local db signal where only the originator could RBF any tx. (2) Another scenario is the user creating the tx in another wallet software= but there is mempool congestion and their tx is "stuck" in the mempool, an= d so they restore from seed in Electrum and try to RBF it there: currently = this works if the other wallet software set nSequence to MAX-2, but with th= e local db signal it would never work. Although this use case is somewhat weakened by the fact that wallet softwar= e that doesn't let the user properly RBF their tx likely doesn't set nSeque= nce to MAX-2 anyway. (3) Even disregarding mixing wallet software, if there is mempool congestio= n and the wallet has some stuck txs, and the user panics and restores from = seed in desperation (and also deletes their old wallet file) then they coul= d not RBF the tx anymore (if the signal bit is stored in the local db). Thi= s might be a contrived example - although weird edge cases do happen. (4) Relatedly, I think it would be nice if other wallet software would only= set nSequence to MAX-2 if the tx is safe to arbitrarily RBF. That is, for = example, ideally a tx paying to a silent payment address should not set MAX= -2 in any wallet. Otherwise in scenario (2), the user could lose the coins.= Alternatively users would have to be educated RBF-ing txs created in other= wallet software is not safe... Indeed this last issue (4) would be avoided if a wallet strictly restricted= RBF to locally originated txs using by storing a flag in a local database.= hmm. Tradeoffs everywhere :) I wonder what logic other wallets use to determine whether they expose a GU= I option to RBF a mempool tx. Regards, SomberNight On Tuesday, June 16th, 2026 at 07:52, void867 wrote: > Hi SomberNight, >=20 > (replying off-list, but feel free to reply on-list) >=20 > It is interesting to use the input sequence number as a field to > signal whether a transaction can be replaced between several wallets > sharing the same seed. >=20 > However, this seems like a fingerprinting vector. When the majority of > wallets use a specific sequence number by default, but one wallet > allows the user on a tx-by-tx basis to use a sequence number different > from the most frequently used default, then transactions using those > non-default sequence numbers are less frequent and could more easily > be grouped and filtered for chain analysis. >=20 > I wonder whether it would be better to use a database field for the > wallet transaction to indicate whether a transaction is permitted to > be replaced. The local transaction field could be anything (such as a > flag if the transaction was locally created, or the wallet/device ID > where the transaction was originally created, possibly even a local > field for each transaction input in a multi-party transaction-creation > context). >=20 > Best, void867 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= NDkJg0T-NF7_W2e1dDsNmmfET-rDUbmRXhiiEQngqTNNnf2EyM4s4eM01O9--90LN985wXDHJgb= iGyVthNdji9Zd3sB6OJgn5v03PFuEM-I%3D%40protonmail.com.