From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 769DAC90 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 04:57:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-40136.protonmail.ch (mail-40136.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.136]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7BE787D for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 04:57:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 04:57:03 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1562216227; bh=M2jifo39TPYMNinKjNApJ8QywJ9eGiQJ1E6uXmcEKZo=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=t0fGmbTNGv++gRppknWuhbXGMSPa7gs+qeWtgRTPWtkn7GYjGCIKla7yhKg3adiuz 8cqwx2Ieofx4nmHrNrmccQn2k2zROjZ2ajHfSvcojZhMcUaawJDixmGkA7qCnwieNj xxeQod8l6PBufzTaJ7PvE+8UL03MPPNNdDJrkcpA= To: Eric Voskuil , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion From: ZmnSCPxj Reply-To: ZmnSCPxj Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6B9A04E2-8EEE-40A0-8B39-64AA0F478CAB@voskuil.org> References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com> <3F46CDD5-DA80-49C8-A51F-8066680EF347@voskuil.org> <063D7C06-F5D8-425B-80CE-CAE03A1AAD0C@voskuil.org> <0AA10217-E1CC-46D1-9B43-038CEEF942CD@gmail.com> <6B9A04E2-8EEE-40A0-8B39-64AA0F478CAB@voskuil.org> Feedback-ID: el4j0RWPRERue64lIQeq9Y2FP-mdB86tFqjmrJyEPR9VAtMovPEo9tvgA0CrTsSHJeeyPXqnoAu6DN-R04uJUg==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 14:46:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 04:57:11 -0000 Good morning Eric, > > and thanks to you and ZmnSCPxj we now have two additional uses cases fo= r UTXOs that are only temporarily accessible to their current owner. > > Actually you have a single potentially-valid use case, the one I have pre= sented. The others I have shown to be invalid (apart from scamming) and no = additional information to demonstrate errors in my conclusions have been of= fered. I presented another use case, that of the "Bitcoin Classified Ads Network". https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-July/017083.ht= ml Advertisements are "backed" by an unspent TXO. In order to limit their local resource consumption, nodes of this network w= ill preferentially keep advertisements that are backed by higher UTXO value= s divided by advertisement size, and drop those with too low UTXO value div= ided by advertisement size. Thus, spammers will either need to rent larger UTXO values for their spam, = paying for the higher rent involved, or fall back to pre-Bitcoin spamming m= ethods. Thus I think I have presented a use-case that is viable for this and does n= ot simply devolve to "just burn a 1-satoshi output". I still do not quite support generalized covenants as the use-case is alrea= dy possible on current Bitcoin (and given that with just a little more tran= saction introspection this enables Turing-completeness), but the basic conc= ept of "renting a UTXO of substantial value" appears sound to me. Regards, ZmnSCPxj