From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16CDC002D for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8548A408F5 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 8548A408F5 Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com header.i=@protonmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=aDAqEL+Z X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id foOEyT73cTu7 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org F1494408F3 Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch (mail-4325.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.25]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1494408F3 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:05 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1673787849; x=1674047049; bh=CBKfxzZUEApK0eHn9nARHxpEzfiE5fjHbuoFmMTd4Fo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=aDAqEL+ZKOTOmGjaFDPm4QiL8hPvA7H+3qmeNAg+oD3y22KulwT9ihqeH16+5HO7B 7s3Zri2nRIBIEMqYKjuL+Ce3SLJ6ksHYhPcoRinJy8vGK+h6iZ8Y7lriy/mnB8tGGc jxeylXSEOhHC+DiwcKyhs1V0xHo/RfG3l8fnd2ThlMCG61ITFKrXCfExreNp/uQxze xFdpdqXTDIhSrqnkatVybwlgwt8bV41SDpnoj3c9iJ0sy54bHacByZR+/5rYFVm5Q9 RLAYC23PoeIKdNirpriIRvNcdR20RPWPP3WBTTEbzuRgefNDXuBZZsSOCCXlFsoPa7 fPrzZ7PvYs5vQ== To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion From: alicexbt Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 40602938:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 21:57:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A new Bitcoin implementation integrated with Core Lightning X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:04:14 -0000 Hi Michael, If I were to fork bitcoin core and maintain an implementation, I wouldn't i= ntegrate any lightning implementation with it. Instead remove some things f= rom bitcoin core and keep it simple. There is also scope for improving priv= acy. Example: https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/issues/50 You might find the commits in this branch interesting if you are looking to= remove things from bitcoin core and maintain an implementation with no gui= , wallet, less RPCs etc. https://github.com/jeremyRubin/bitcoin/commits/delete-it-all /dev/fd0 floppy disc guy Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Sunday, January 15th, 2023 at 1:56 AM, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev <= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I tweeted this [0] back in November 2022. >=20 > "With the btcd bugs and the analysis paralysis on a RBF policy option in = Core increasingly thinking @BitcoinKnots and consensus compatible forks of = Core are the future. Gonna chalk that one up to another thing @LukeDashjr w= as right about all along." >=20 > A new bare bones Knots style Bitcoin implementation (in C++/C) integrated= with Core Lightning was a long term idea I had (and presumably many others= have had) but the dysfunction on the Bitcoin Core project this week (if an= ything it has been getting worse over time, not better) has made me start t= o take the idea more seriously. It is clear to me that the current way the = Bitcoin Core project is being managed is not how I would like an open sourc= e project to be managed. Very little discussion is public anymore and decis= ions seem to be increasingly made behind closed doors or in private IRC cha= nnels (to the extent that decisions are made at all). Core Lightning seems = to have the opposite problem. It is managed effectively in the open (admitt= edly with fewer contributors) but doesn't have the eyeballs or the usage th= at Bitcoin Core does. Regardless, selfishly I at some point would like a ba= re bones Bitcoin and Lightning implementation integrated in one codebase. T= he Bitcoin Core codebase has collected a lot of cruft over time and the ult= ra conservatism that is needed when treating (potential) consensus code see= ms to permeate into parts of the codebase that no one is using, definitely = isn't consensus code and should probably just be removed. >=20 > The libbitcoinkernel project was (is?) an attempt to extract the consensu= s engine out of Core but it seems like it won't achieve that as consensus i= s just too slippery a concept and Knots style consensus compatible codebase= forks of Bitcoin Core seem to still the model. To what extent you can safe= ly chop off this cruft and effectively maintain this less crufty fork of Bi= tcoin Core also isn't clear to me yet. >=20 > Then there is the question of whether it makes sense to mix C and C++ cod= e that people have different views on. C++ is obviously a superset of C but= assuming this merging of Bitcoin Core and Core Lightning is/was the optima= l final destination it surely would have been better if Core Lightning was = written in the same language (i.e. with classes) as Bitcoin Core. >=20 > I'm just floating the idea to (hopefully) hear from people who are much m= ore familiar with the entirety of the Bitcoin Core and Core Lightning codeb= ases. It would be an ambitious long term project but it would be nice to fo= cus on some ambitious project(s) (even if just conceptually) for a while gi= ven (thankfully) there seems to be a lull in soft fork activation chaos. >=20 > Thanks > Michael >=20 > [0]:=C2=A0https://twitter.com/michaelfolkson/status/1589220155006910464?s= =3D20&t=3DGbPm7w5BqS7rS3kiVFTNcw >=20 > -- > Michael Folkson > Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com > Keybase: michaelfolkson > PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3