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(8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 1B9CuQ0Z001935; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:56:26 GMT (envelope-from user@petertodd.org) Received: from petertodd.org (76-10-157-59.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.59]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 1B9CuOUD084574 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:56:25 GMT (envelope-from user@petertodd.org) Received: by petertodd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 337089E659; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 07:56:23 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=petertodd.org; s=mail; t=1639054583; bh=yoOeEhhhD3Zuu+nOw0RH016fZyuKY5sB4viL63WlAhM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=g974EOfyqIABMSxEiySRJgId4pgtJa77a0CSfF1I8mlwvXzPhZwYQt1Lm296lT0sg pqckgl0yFo9+3oUcGS3GmzixmFV8IxVucpTGQwFTB6M53x8+qqpQY69QeNnyXGRU+N YMqYAp8r2f7Ue+7RxwFZnPlyI0rL8kbA7tVim3SnAqLqgfiB45cKZM1txIJq/f/Fbx MsXP3Pn7P00/Ok+92XhnhniXbIQUID9hW/+Idr/8cSrT0hfo+fkFJlT3VAaLggRJZA m9zgAYTABXxx3gbDYAZ0YwB7sz6KZXHhTEANjDUXEp8/twQCpg+UBl4N7OIGvMquqA 8cOThgVPICkbg== Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 44D355FB50; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 07:56:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 07:56:19 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Alex Schoof Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pa2N1icXw6EwdAH2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Server-Quench: 6b0ba906-58ef-11ec-ba2e-8434971169dc X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZIVwkA IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR bwdMdgsUHFAXAgsB AWcbWlZeVVt7W2Y7 bAxPbAVDY09JQQBj T0pMXVMcFXdhcll+ Y2oeWh13cAEIen12 bUMsWCJbDhVzdUBg R0YBQ3AHZDIzdTJO UhVFfwdXdApNfx5D YwQsGhFYa3VsGiM3 HxM1PjY+eDlSNhEd cQsMMVkVQEBOEjMi clg5EDMjHEsKDwIL GCYLFmMmOg4PM0x6 G1o9UlUZNX1aLgxR H11LASlWTwAI X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:7600 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 76.10.157.59/25 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , lightning-dev , =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E9ctor_Jos=E9_C=E1rdenas?= Pacheco Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 12:56:31 -0000 --pa2N1icXw6EwdAH2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 07:12:45AM -0500, Alex Schoof wrote: > The multisig scheme is interesting. From my understanding of Single Use > Seals, since seal n commits to seal n+1, for the on-chain aggregation sea= ls > you would want to pick some common aggregation service provider ahead of > time and if that provider disappears, you=E2=80=99re stuck and cant close= the next > seal. If instead you say =E2=80=9Cthis seal commits to three of the five = of these > next seals=E2=80=9D then you mitigate both availability and censorship ri= sk. Am I > getting that right? Re: "some common aggregation service provider", you might be misunderstandi= ng the protocol: since seals are trustless with regard to validity, I can vali= date your seal, regardless of which aggregation service you use. But other than that, I think we're on the same page! A concrete example would be an exchange: they do a lot of transactions, so = they could choose to be their own aggregator, and wouldn't need any multisig at = all because they can trust themselves not to censor themselves. :) Meanwhile, o= ne of their customers might use 3-of-5 as you suggest, as they only do a few transactions a month. Interestingly, in some scenarios it might be worthwhile to both run your own aggregator, and use multisig. Eg Alice could use a 2-of-3 with two third-pa= rty aggregators, and her own aggregation chain. If both third-parties are up, s= he does no on-chain transactions at all; if one third-party is down, she can u= se her own, and the remaining third-party. Thus she would only do an on-chain transaction to defeat censorship/failure. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --pa2N1icXw6EwdAH2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmGx/O4ACgkQLly11TVR LzfWYRAAvEuQRZUD/i5zS7BjPV8Ln+8m93ZaNm/WBfGh5q46P8uUY0jCUHz8ytPo OBXzBiS2N1jS8QlIITZLzO5bo3k1QY3q10YTzuy32o1jdSSNcjE9Wrvvs8F5y4Wx E8Y8ox+Yxz0AHjKgiKbTl+GEWnTwJoQWDWfdYaPHOcDhkNe7bacD/AcXi6wyH/dV /eDRMeWM3Hj4ofSqjFT6dQ4qNWxJkr7G5Y+mNFmSNKXbl+3wsQejHdydBOcNYkQh e3xTJ0JksmO+3T0WEMoiGaH3s3Gjx185U5KhP4r16heaFDnLlepx6b8j6V7/8++Q bDRiAMa22hu4+s5K3A8dxicOHGn7JxzGRKeX/e47iVaon8J3SM3HcnSDBEVhP4/c HDfWtm3N1XT0kk4VVBpzY1S3SpqfagYfMEbkzlzG4uQZzbpq522YZb/gP7B8UsHj 7iymWZoAwgZDs97lum1BnryKynYL4Pte2uo2vlVQKAXhcxG6iA8yQj7urf7+oY07 pjhfolvHOPMSCPomo7W4nt1SywtVCasP0rs8K/IYu6WhpBRqRGvD2knXBYLbQIW/ 77p3S60EOOB9ohr6K4WDTFV3TeLO+/Z75rZclnCNspJ6EXSYLZ/qNg5y4nSSzuYw uLQdcgjhHdHnZJ9+aqUVUYxcbiy/vT2k9R6KtYaTmScIkOTuEaw= =f75x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pa2N1icXw6EwdAH2--