public inbox for bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: John Tromp <john.tromp@gmail.com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 11:13:44 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YsmbKPrsM0wKXAYQ@petertodd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAOU__fz8XSfEdOS9U7_H4A4jpCgtQepKxaW4jT5go91rhY-VQg@mail.gmail.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1941 bytes --]

On Sat, Jul 09, 2022 at 04:57:57PM +0200, John Tromp via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > New blog post:
> > https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationary
> 
> A Tail Emission is best described as disinflationary; the yearly
> supply inflation steadily decreases toward zero.

_Apparently_ inflation. True monetary inflation includes lost coins - both
intentionally and accidentally lost. It's quite possible that even with tail
emission Monero is currently a monetarily deflationary coin, as the lost coin
rate might be higher than the 0.8% apparent tail emission rate.

We just don't know. Doubly so in the case of monero where its privacy features
hide coin activity.

> > If an existing coin decides to implement tail emission as a means to fund security, choosing an appropriate emission rate is simple: decide on the maximum amount of inflation you are willing to have in the worst case, and set the tail emission accordingly.
> 
> Any coin without a premine starts with infinite inflation. Bitcoin in
> its first 4 years had yearly inflation rates of inf, 100%, 50%, and
> 33%. So deciding on a maximum amount of inflation is deciding on a
> premine.

Hence why I specified an *existing* coin.

> While in the long term, a capped supply doesn't meaningfully differ
> from un uncapped supply [1], the 21M limit is central to Bitcoin's
> identity, and removing this limit results in something that can no
> longer be called Bitcoin.

Personally I think basing your identity on a technical point that isn't even
correct is stupid. And I suspect than when push comes to shove, if in ~10 years
or whatever Bitcoin turns out to be unstable without a reward, the market as a
whole will be happy to redefine Bitcoin to remove the 21M limit. Whether or not
it can do that fast enough to avoid Bitcoin dying first is an open question.

-- 
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-09 15:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-07-09 14:57 [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary John Tromp
2022-07-09 15:13 ` Peter Todd [this message]
2022-07-11 18:44   ` Dave Scotese
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-19  5:34 vjudeu
2022-08-18 20:22 jk_14
2022-08-17 13:43 jk_14
2022-08-18 15:29 ` Breno Brito
2022-08-18 15:44 ` Billy Tetrud
2022-08-18 20:49 ` Erik Aronesty
2022-08-17  8:54 jk_14
2022-08-16 16:05 Peter
2022-08-19 17:21 ` aliashraf.btc At protonmail
2022-08-20 15:30   ` Billy Tetrud
2022-08-15 21:46 jk_14
2022-08-17 11:10 ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-26 20:01 jk_14
2022-07-19 18:36 Peter
2022-07-20 14:35 ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-10 17:42 Eric Voskuil
     [not found] <mailman.80287.1657405305.8511.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
2022-07-10  7:44 ` John Tromp
2022-07-09 22:21 Peter
2022-07-09 20:54 Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 21:59 ` ZmnSCPxj
2022-07-10 14:17   ` alicexbt
2022-07-10 16:38     ` alicexbt
2022-07-10 17:29     ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10 17:27   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10 18:12     ` vjudeu
2022-07-18 11:34     ` David A. Harding
2022-07-18 19:14       ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-18 21:48         ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-25 15:04         ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-26 15:44           ` jk_14
2022-07-26 17:05             ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-09 20:53 Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 12:46 Peter Todd
2022-07-09 14:26 ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 15:15   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-09 15:24     ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 15:31       ` Peter Todd
2022-07-09 17:43         ` naman naman
2022-07-09 17:48           ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10  6:54             ` naman naman
2022-07-10  2:10         ` Tobin Harding
2022-07-10  7:08 ` vjudeu
2022-07-11 18:25   ` Larry Ruane
2022-07-10 10:18 ` Jacob Eliosoff
2022-07-11  2:32 ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-11  6:15   ` Stefan Richter
2022-07-11 10:42     ` Giuseppe B
2022-07-11 12:56   ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-11 23:57     ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-13 18:29       ` Zac Greenwood
2022-07-11 16:59   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-11 17:44     ` Bram Cohen
2022-07-13 14:06 ` Alfred Hodler

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=YsmbKPrsM0wKXAYQ@petertodd.org \
    --to=pete@petertodd.org \
    --cc=bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=john.tromp@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox