From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:30:00 -0800 Received: from mail-oa1-f59.google.com ([209.85.160.59]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbMZD-0002bx-Gz for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:30:00 -0800 Received: by mail-oa1-f59.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-29fdd65e24asf2726000fac.2 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:29:59 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1737736193; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=ImVQoOJoHIe4jzaT5JNusfRSkutgcy9eVZ9jnETLyWQo2gs099suCksPnFKGBbLHws 8rkUTu2zlV+ZAN3cs/+Zzb4CBLDracVZVa+brA3IM7BPqTg72JRx6L1CfsB5vvuXatZ0 +qptTDWzpQrkTS5gKzpUj97EcUhuAHr83efVrfy2YSuvwh8lm+zf6mSBX7Bv6RyYEliP bJ0ZYr3I4r1g1U9CxrSJRF7Xc+V5zJOZr0C94h2RxWUW+w8b7fLRI4cqNieGM+IzkEKC mh8+I1670TCp9uO11IQvqCSPchxjFB+go8AXfijDhCN8KxZve8XgvYlmRlg4Qbxq9x7V evfg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition :mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date :feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature; bh=MQfCYWdAf0kOE78Nz2/jNrS9bsxdq56BkYkdQBQpSKY=; fh=wn1mIryvj1mZ7Fn0uS3xz9zOrKBiU0XpRHqaY9C/uEo=; b=NqJJAnWysm/0IiZEjxqF/fK6QO/OMD5ECGpNqFfwUBfq+/N67ma7+LLMnqkvoZRSXe /+wpfqt2LwsMvDvplGBsXCftXJcVBoTcmpWparxVMhuFUwpJKT39Akv5NwpcLMBfiOxI DcoILPrbsSt1kj40wwq/StEPX7jxcbC+iNdGrqReojBhrDZRBRB2HS5GOiuL6AyFAwPD tEtT56d0g9qpD8HQZkdhe3GzHarn20/XF3epDDgz3Ugu47r57UrdNSP+AF0yi3w+H4U0 BTXwtbohNLKJqurtJmHdwVjDfxF+29E0PoyvcVM9jN+e85+Tp8TE5Lb51mElDwOe5Dpl W+pA==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=pYKF9mO6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.157 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1737736193; x=1738340993; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:sender :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MQfCYWdAf0kOE78Nz2/jNrS9bsxdq56BkYkdQBQpSKY=; b=dS68X9qZABg3q/wRSbgaMH9NEsLa1qa7sqwm0no29uglKwmGXYbxuD8LM6xWc9i5Yz Q/frv63gtJw0/ZbjuzLy/vCMC1Oa4wdNegx4arh8+K1ogzY/YudS3UbcFdhJrOLxyooR KK6My5B/643y2CQUDfWzend7kpK8bHgpEUXqHfLeGRIDjTacBPHfawCVANfv2GAb3h7Z n5mzKHabaFVZrFBQTFLWtU07tIX8DpBjTBEysfCE+t5B8NFle9YYmSbzLS3ZVvx8ecRp Z9gmWA6mTalNxgqQFWFmPIu+yLxcHqjLsD4nj9xnheMojz8iT22uGSG2eYEun1V5chez qF1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1737736193; x=1738340993; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id :x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MQfCYWdAf0kOE78Nz2/jNrS9bsxdq56BkYkdQBQpSKY=; b=Jn1y0tKfKpZTAYoVUsRo9XE0PYB/UuiyIdFukbXh+7X2oA7kCJ0joYFga2Ct6AhxYb dGH4nTyjCTxKcA2+YNnRwJ+NgtSkin9YkDBeYlM6ym4186JCFY5HHkEqucSAG6+B9hOZ Xtxa2SQYAdH6L3c7vdjeu6Ypx+hor7qGVV4Al9MHRDtZG4W+h9H0hpeWGnVFGsWBKnNS nEO2l7GStibLtVasxhs1vDNtd46OVkBLG/G8W5nJqfRiXo3hYsJE4yMqTEbPhpI025ho Rt2US2/8CbcD+sUUYqng9yIEW+rav72e0lWqy6B40u4MXUIQsZJquXvxPytn9gbsnysZ gi/g== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWwWgKX0dDDKkLsAYKB/DVUbiNztRr1MC4ipKIQdPbKMHvgOjoeuqb9vxGPs2bycFDiLawM1Cl/vdW+@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyG1vdI0j5wbWHAk9flTw1il/b01ZAOIQSAB/lw73S1WqfDbQDf wUY6/t0M2aCH8m0qeYQLH0Pla7U/cn7EAlam7wqRCGz7RwnanoQ5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGB3woxpkMIjfoD4NalSZBPwPMR4FsM6yvdn/r56euvkS4YnDm9zzZ71FZaLDLz9ClvUrtAYg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:a516:b0:287:4904:7125 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2b1c08caa8bmr17750314fac.14.1737736193640; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:29:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a05:6870:ef01:b0:29f:f56e:68fa with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2b27338bdd2ls929689fac.2.-pod-prod-09-us; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:29:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3c4e:b0:3e7:f43d:3cf1 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3f19fc3f14bmr21443662b6e.2.1737736190143; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:6808:6044:b0:3eb:7446:f871 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3f1efed1c35msb6e; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:00:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:5344:b0:2ee:c457:bf83 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2f782c997a4mr41143065a91.19.1737734433280; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:00:33 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1737734433; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=UrYDY4XX2HPDYxgt9zTimB7mIutlLGkRGqI/tZ9IdQtd6dH5ph1rIYoYjjqWo3bdvp 4C+Ujz0F7sSyx8Sn3JqxYOkN9z4TZ4ikHL6K+AUMFj1HaQU8258wgqhWfYnypnwo9qZX Kcc8dTmYs6Um5h/OElw4/bXPPBIxmOoBPkaDo5E81nVesuu2nNN7+WCjA6eSpiGMOj/d w21JUDcNZCftB1i0kCyp0AuhOh2FWnMeogwy2HPkaxI38jOrcWD4sANUURhqJd60dgji usphPKZqPI3jmHzS7sdsb7TCrCOh/iQ8agUZ0ttpaaJc++zd7MHUtQbIR4+s14kHsdYr 9e7w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:dkim-signature; bh=Bd5sDO67NEg0ouJRBQhR8Dg9GCjxM1Zce7+1vXWGDV8=; fh=5HyPAjoX9Qu8lrKcSbvwAEk6+YgBxPNZL8TnxYb/Mm4=; b=Nco/AVzW8jfoJDg+T1QjLR35NudccIx5F3sGqrwMKAyt/uAktSK1Rix3fDQ2yx5Hh3 zi3N5B9r7OsWO1EW/96HNE4X13hkwJgoS+2P2YgrqsjqjTl3h8q+cVbKsuEVfBs09ZVD K9jPK+8A1P6M6PgNYssopXWEFkO1lDeJVExO18RSzyzP7MpvpIg/mmaTHcbHLOdaV3sa SN9687M2Nd3lUE8CrBCWNDNmURbvJ1sN01HtmafQGZZpZ1bLKQPUSzbArIqnWQmsTjT6 qikJhadGZK0t3GBRaaYvDDJv3XUMStzmWSTuF8q2AejFqS/GuLWUPb2YxjDnqVktDIEA 4GKw==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=pYKF9mO6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.157 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Received: from fhigh-a6-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a6-smtp.messagingengine.com. [103.168.172.157]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-2f7ff91097esi74975a91.0.2025.01.24.08.00.32 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.157 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.157; Received: from phl-compute-11.internal (phl-compute-11.phl.internal [10.202.2.51]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E471140245; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-11.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:00:31 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefuddrudejgedggeelfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivg hnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpeffhffvvefukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttddv necuhfhrohhmpefrvghtvghrucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdroh hrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepledvleelffdtudekudffjefgfeejueehieelfedt gfetudetgeegveeutefhjedtnecuffhomhgrihhnpehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgne cuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgvthgv sehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhmohguvgepshhmth hpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegsihhttghoihhnuggvvhesghhoohhglhgvghhrohhuphhs rdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepnhhothhhihhnghhmuhgthhesfihoohgslhhinhhgrdhorh hg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0EB1A9FC49; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:00:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:00:28 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Yuval Kogman Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Reiterating centralized coinjoin (Wasabi & Samourai) deanonymization attacks Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GNO6HQGdK5KE/84U" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=pYKF9mO6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.157 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --GNO6HQGdK5KE/84U Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 04:25:46PM +0000, Peter Todd wrote: > The only question left for this technique is a cryptography one: > > Is it possible to create an alternate pubkey p', that such that a valid > signature s signed by arbitrary pubkey p for message m, also validates > for p' for signature s and message m? I believe the answer is no for > schnorr. But I'm not a cryptography expert, and I may have missed > something. Sorry, I forgot one condition in that paragraph. Here's what it should have said: Is it possible to create an alternate pubkey p', that such that a valid signature s signed by arbitrary pubkey p for message m, also validates for p' for signature s and message m, *and* also validates for signature s' and message m'? I believe the answer is no for schnorr. But I'm not a cryptography expert, and I may have missed something. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/Z5O5HGWyM597drg3%40petertodd.org. --GNO6HQGdK5KE/84U Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmeTuRsACgkQLly11TVR LzdtqA/+PaJ59u4AA6M/zM+4A8WLBgQSV+urvRUN/0GSN3ccduByGkFA/wVeyPcS GL56+1bLj2SmNlkk+Kg/WUeupwP6WSxugZprw2Jp0xeS7RA8aqeGZNMgYehp0/ZU 2CpkbipLW5ffX1v22tVvZAxRByRgmelhLYDSVnz6EEkn0OylYoOk95BY0QupDxNC f7sdDG3oHANAEiUAUllj83sNFZwNTBEkRIRMH9qweKUaWzowLOvyC3pZzYZdBK0l yP9FsecVsZl+bQyvyf+jb3R39rvhluKZpwObxZ8SL37vwANtpaAlDUbJDzAMVYDr vMIBFdQjULsa0DNRiWtLT9if4Bi/BgKGE12mYQwwQUi49OlLSQGU+k2mMSgjK79/ xzDrh7kOyMgNezVlm8saaqP9LNb3L4vep2+KB9+fYp+rTJNVdfnx5aFw9tcjhyZx tdTxhvFSbdvpoTzkk7R3dBxnA9LMR6o/3IY3pzICLJwOY/BCJPFfDRmluvi6rN4U c98+JlKxGfXo4BVZ1LY1NNJhdsiMFpIyYyiQaYdmED5w2v3eZ1WEETxbivMFDvG6 ys5hEm1fl6RHsIXZJA59vTGZhU6M5xe3JGaz2AMz+mM8gFDKOx4hOggNOTRh0rZ5 RbjmdttuVz2REyyaF4kxf3FO4NbBH3ALO+KYcioRp8jfw+msbH4= =6lfY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GNO6HQGdK5KE/84U--