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[103.168.172.156]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b257fd5e9si7192276.1.2025.02.04.13.39.36 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.156; Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC47A11401DA; Tue, 4 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 04 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvudeifecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvf evuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceo phgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelvdelle fftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileeftdfgteduteeggeevueethfejtdenucffohhmrghi nhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrh grmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpnhgspghr tghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinh guvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegrrhhmtghhrghi rhgtrhihphhtohhlohhgihhsthesphhrohhtohhnmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 4 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1EAB29FCD2; Tue, 4 Feb 2025 21:39:34 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 21:39:34 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: ArmchairCryptologist Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Transaction expiration should be based on the most recent transaction in a group, not the first Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="snkLLSlxIBptqMEG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=GJyGcGsN; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --snkLLSlxIBptqMEG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:02:56PM +0000, 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoi= n Development Mailing List wrote: > Is expiration-based mempool eviction necessary or even desirable anymore?= I'm consistently seeing unconfirmed transactions from months ago being reb= roadcast and (now that the mempool is draining) eventually confirming, with= out anyone even trying to exploit anything. So from what I can tell, the on= ly thing this really accomplishes is wasting CPU cycles and bandwidth evict= ing and later re-accepting the transactions in question. All it would take is one person running a rebroadcasting service to make mempool eviction useless except in the rare case that a soft-fork of standard transactions has happened. Although even then, arguably you are better off not wasting bandwidth re-accepting those transactions over and over again. > You were never able to rely on unconfirmed transactions ever going away w= ithout double-spending one of the inputs in the first place, and full-RBF i= s even a thing now, so this will always be possible. Agreed. > The mempool is capped by size anyway, so while I may be missing something= , I cannot honestly see any good reasons to keep this mechanism at all, esp= ecially if it can be used as a vector for attacks. > > The only drawback I can think of is that abandontransaction currently doe= s not work if a transaction is in the mempool, but it would probably be bet= ter to improve it so it actually evicts the transaction from the mempool of= the local node if necessary. Agreed. I've run into this problem before myself. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= Z6KJFvikr27e7Igk%40petertodd.org. --snkLLSlxIBptqMEG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmeiiRQACgkQLly11TVR LzcCNxAAuofcytDErmZY0g7+LOGJHJQO3KJH66CEtlB7b4oeQAxq62o2LghiaoKN e4Ya8R2ggsu9uPnvwNbk9qajAEjE/hvkzkD2SQBQmxoVxfQbiMl/bIEJUE1j/S8v O6aAAMFO+fpNJvvOMxRbv9+qReOe04Hc40Wl/SFYNqUdlZ1IdsK8Cx3D1ausoDtC 6RS8JER1NqBWmS7SE1aJoW/TQ4dG7svMBvmNAtfIUX8wfjHFE9al49zP45UBJ1+U ZdF1pr9TIzbTppWoMfUHcw/6pI7wz3UYjH3U2dRYEItr+7iBSgoyVc59a9NqH4s7 OKZnCS73C6S5/WHGET/Hpt8+jLDtD5QD5//3gZlWt9eI0nZqsw0m5bjg1gEDBHfg D23uDhw8EgkZmd5nUp1NCb9WkIotaHt0UnObhlPmS/0i8uDFCiX3tlZyA+GWwPL6 KmoKC6PBGkkejHXE3JAL8snYK0dvg+LVxSv5DpRhi4L7hMFG7rtiVVNE20CFoSX0 /9g1CyQaF0kdyqO25vAtDB0Qa3qZCwFqdlv56/ez6oDXilmhMBFFNT83KX2CRiOR PGa/whX1ZNRgPwP23mrsGJA6C4thVZMxoPevm3dVSh51br4k6715CgCSDIEeqZ+t eHo8VSI4ocgkiiKLroqhg2ppC17F7khkc56VD68Ow7uUz+8nrSA= =0kVz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --snkLLSlxIBptqMEG--