From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9458EC0029 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0AB60E3E for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 5C0AB60E3E Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm1 header.b=i/1S9pgO X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vL4aJDf-ex7u for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org F35F860E71 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F35F860E71 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42365C07B1; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 14:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 05 Jun 2023 14:47:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1685990826; x=1686077226; bh=beUNR3ZaliF47 9/l/Rk4dfMskdUM/EQabfL331Yb9M0=; b=i/1S9pgOLgLPth23ToYe4gE4mmA+q in+CJcNKQfrteu50LHtDiYFZxeXb62dwwVPBqDRAbuDJQTJuAEvxzxCTh+yNKQdn 7nFKeOBJuYxCeOKPbq//IT9SnRcXHL3wPduV7qwQcpHVpkFpvZKlHcVIL8Obozce 4G0fCjwnHar5OfixSgmsU8ErCqjQ5Yh50HyyAZH+0v6R/jfmm+U8i84XlgXLc19F qF40b03BD2+utwvjILooooQou6CGToaocDSIjLbhZW+NI3nztguBgxULyqst497/ 6AJrEu+iVtNsxK1HegDLENXZ16ozSCBaEt03z+DhWrJIMqrqqpHobscAg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfeelledgudefudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtjeenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv rhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeevieduieetieefvefhteeiudeuteeggeekgfejgeeikeeludettdfftedvtdek hfenucffohhmrghinhepiigvrhhoshihnhgtrdhorhhgpdhpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorh hgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgv thgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 14:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1442A5F81D; Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:47:03 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Robin Linus , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="P7y0cSQvWa0lKWHq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] ZeroSync: Introducing Validity Proofs to Bitcoin X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2023 18:47:09 -0000 --P7y0cSQvWa0lKWHq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:12:03PM +0200, Robin Linus via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Today we are publishing a summary of our research on "ZeroSync: Introduci= ng Validity Proofs to Bitcoin". >=20 >=20 > Here's the preface: >=20 > We introduce ZeroSync, the first-ever proof system addressing Bitcoin=E2= =80=99s scalability challenges with Succinct Non-Interactive Argument of Kn= owledge (SNARKs). ZeroSync compresses the entire Bitcoin blockchain into a = compact proof of validity, enabling instant verification and unlocking vari= ous innovative applications. We discuss our prototype implementation of a c= hain state proof, utilizing the Cairo language, Utreexo, and recursive STAR= Ks. Our work enables diverse applications, including quick bootstrapping of= full nodes, trustless light clients, enhanced Lightning Network privacy, a= nd secure cross-chain bridges. Chain state proofs require no consensus chan= ges, which is crucial as forks in Bitcoin are challenging to implement and = achieve consensus for. Despite the existing bottleneck of prover performanc= e, we present a range of optimization strategies and demonstrate the practi= cality of generating a complete chain state proof.=20 > Finally, we introduce zkCoins, a client-side validation protocol combined= with zeroknowledge SNARKs, drastically improving privacy and throughput of= token transactions. In combination with future Bitcoin features, such as S= implicity, zkCoins also enables private and more scalable BTC transactions.= =20 > The groundbreaking compression capabilities of SNARKs initiated a paradig= m shift in cryptocurrency design, and ZeroSync is pioneering their applicat= ion to Bitcoin. >=20 >=20 > You can find the full paper here: https://zerosync.org/zerosync.pdf > Happy to receive any comments and answer any questions the bitcoin dev co= mmunity may have about the paper! Two serious issues with this proposal: 1) You're creating an alternative implementation of the Bitcoin protocol. T= here is a _long_ history of such implementations failing to implement an exact c= opy of the consensus rules, leading to potential forks. Obviously, if only used= by otherwise lite clients, there is less of a risk associated with this. But t= he risk is there and will expand as this tech is used for more sophisticated things. 2) If the tech advances to the point where proof-generation is fast enough = to happen in real time, Bitcoin miners adopting it along with and other wideps= read adoption it may cause Bitcoin to lose its decentralization. At the heart, Bitcoin's consensus is a proof of publication scheme: miners are (weakly) forced to publish blocks by the fact that users and other miners demand blo= cks to both validate their coins, and mine further. Without blocks themselves b= eing published on a timely basis, the censorship resistance of Bitcoin fails bec= ause only a subset of miners actually have the necessary block data to create new blocks with transactions in them. There's also other scenarios where these capabilities could be abused, eg with "illegal data" being published in the chain. Re: #2, the Bitcoin technical community would be smart to find ways to *def= eat* ZKP schemes, with the goal of making it technologically infeasible to use t= hem for recently created blocks (eg the last few days worth). --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --P7y0cSQvWa0lKWHq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmR+LaQACgkQLly11TVR LzcnBQ//R301vIatkpLiDu0OCUAr4vr/1OFHL+sWx2YWm8Lw+SCr5BvaTbOix+iB JeXnWaDYTjPWxXVUhJIFp9cx35Gqe62UBlrRldVPSHMW/khcHZPHqHchDQ7TlCx8 npJbc4iYgky/i0Vft/HSiromP18Ts03bm6NAyEd13GlL0llNJzr7Id47N1d+q6UU TqcPKpzXOwyuEiBSBU2fDEONcsTKB5e2g/i9ZWoqkI1yO3lexgD/IkwTaABqZM22 0wK6cFgys6i1tHrKyvTlBO3fFku7FhZ4I0yDTdBb031a3e37i+hERhCIFc+xU+gD pLClikev5cAETVeCpsQoKw/lBJGEWWhjKyq53bCWpCtHojMfKAFqvNDJUDgQz3tr sFy2FFNUzskhDr/L0am0DtqFvIFac3XrX928AUmzViUlWi0O10ZzjhmUPCU8cjHh owqnKygIyH6ubBTFaK0muZ68c+g3yQriyVtP65+CAFLzMF1amLLCP2bMsJ+M8WzA avp67iSR9o+4T4j6CT9HHfj1EL9+vCoz342tgeda1J16hb5hKd5uSStKRGJXwJt4 VZcb8rsfi0vIT3ekouP2Fhrbk1O8K4Dd8950HZ2F2nFBhA1/JUzBFA1MdvUkqZA8 RdV6RB1gVu0oqaHTApPHF+cV5nPWob8oaOvabtbXxABB/ukrjos= =ztbC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --P7y0cSQvWa0lKWHq--