From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C7FC0032 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74C0405F4 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:55 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org C74C0405F4 Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=ZDXtZhp9 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.298 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YhDLpV2PKfZN for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 370 seconds by postgrey-1.37 at util1.osuosl.org; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:53 UTC DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 306CC400D9 Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 306CC400D9 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00FE5C00F2 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 11:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 30 Jul 2023 11:44:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1690731881; x=1690818281; bh=CwRf/HZGRJsvbYR7rOCiGaSqyprvhu5W3Wk gMH6EtMA=; b=ZDXtZhp9+vswO6bbzoppYLBoooc5H5IPEZSFK0cyJz7kaxU6YLi N/2C2JfjuHeoJwgspKn2RqZtJN1fXIVidTr5UcoOHxqKBgH7OveboDV+j2PmzLgz b0U7IcdU2Of0YDQMb3s0xipUgVOJbUpsAF/QFXh4PcwgzzXUKok6beFcpTo0RUmv KTNZUE1qDD+miNYxS+jo/HRG52OapORnyYqeT8CCRltOtsyux0QHz0l87wFlOIGM /VphjZxh8HPtbPWQo5AJ0K0hsaQNAnsf6V5Kr6snEh8MZ43sHY2YIvdUjfcaXxK4 4uczro6efOI4M6VQ2oYlK9sSNcPqK+aRb+g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedviedrjedugdelvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukfggtggusehgtderredttd dvnecuhfhrohhmpefrvghtvghrucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr ohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepleelffetieduveevgeetvddvffeitdevudeike ffvedtveekhfelffelgfetgfegnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpmhgv mhhpohholhdrshhprggtvgdpphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpsghttghprgihshgvrh hvvghrrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomhepphgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 11:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 496775F850; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:44:36 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:44:36 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jxJ9cGscdKF6mcQ7" Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Pull-req to enable Full-RBF by default X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:50:56 -0000 --jxJ9cGscdKF6mcQ7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI I have submitted a pull-req to Bitcoin Core to enable full-rbf by defau= lt: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/28132 At the moment approximately 40% of the total Bitcoin hash power is mining full-rbf replacements, spread over 8 different pools. Multiple block explor= ers, including blockstream.info(1) and mempool.space(2), have enabled full-rbf on all their nodes. Nodes installed via BTCPay Server(3) and MyNode(4), among others, enable full-rbf by default. Measurements also indicate that a significant percentage of nodes have manually enabled full-rbf(5), and there exists a well-connected set of nodes running my full-rbf peering patch(6). As https://mempool.space/rbf#fullrbf shows, successful full-rbf replacements are fairly common. Though the fact that only a minority of nodes relay full= -rbf replacements is still a nuisance barrier to taking advantage of them, eg in multi-party transactions(7). A typical non-listening node with only 8 outgo= ing connections is certainly *not* guaranteed to have full-rbf peers. Thus, my pull-req to enable full-rbf by default. Meanwhile, the last time full-rbf was discussed on this mailing list the on= ly opposition to full-rbf from actual entities with an actual claimed use(8) of unconfirmed transactions was Bitrefill. I've checked multiple times, most recently today, and I can find no evidence that Bitrefill actually accepts unconfirmed transactions as payment any more even though their payment page claims otherwise. Every test transactions I've done - from a variety of ema= ils and accounts not linked to myself - has required a confirmation. Finally, on-chain wallets have been moving towards removing the ability to = set non-BIP125-rbf transactions entirely. For example, Electrum removed the abi= lity to turn off BIP125 last year(9), and Phoenix, Green, Nunchuck, and Zeus, - among others - also provide no way to turn BIP125 off. For these wallets, t= he existence of "non-replaceable" transactions is merely a support headache(10= ). The fact is the dream of "on-chain coffee payments" is well and truly dead. There is clearly no value in having the BIP125 distinction when ~40% of has= hing power ignores it. There is also clear value in *not* having that distinctio= n: https://petertodd.org/2023/why-you-should-run-mempoolfullrbf We should enable full-rbf by default in Bitcoin Core github master, to be released in the upcoming v26.0. Following that, we can depreciate and eventually remove all BIP125 code and associated complexity in future relea= ses after that. # References 1) https://github.com/Blockstream/esplora/commit/289cc6539497c3f42ab5c591c2= 369b75d90046e6 2) https://github.com/mempool/mempool/pull/3867 3) https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Wallet/#does-btcpay-server-use-mempool= fullrbf-1- 4) https://github.com/mynodebtc/mynode/commit/a6cd63583cab8c62510925492bb2c= fda9d2add09 5) https://petertodd.org/2022/bitcoin-core-nodes-running-fullrbf 6) https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin/tree/full-rbf-v25.0 7) https://petertodd.org/2023/fullrbf-multiparty-protocols 8) While GAP600 claimed to act as a payment processor for unconfirmed transactions, they refused to actually provide examples of real services making use of them. Given their ties to BSV, I'm inclined to believe that they are lying. 9) https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/e1dc7d1e6fb2fc5b88195b62cbe1= 613b252db388 10) https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/8490 --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --jxJ9cGscdKF6mcQ7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmTGhWEACgkQLly11TVR LzcGHg/6A00gNpgcDWfo78Im7K3WmKXK5jMxKbB68VaPAfRpFuNUfo1QdcsfgFGR Mn7t5CIjVq3MSEbb9X7HSyyPLyT75ODL8moxkiOlS8qlxkL4UosV279PtOstxHtY 3D3DpWUmq0x8QunOU6n908ksDElrjZKUnmYVyr3gyWSIM9LMWE9M5XFou077/jDz Eg0zeRWhtf7H1Pe6DcrldwC3xEM3CeUqQ0LhR1NEKVrqQwpQXDHdmdHa9vTG8CRg XvlbIsBPCHz8pIUZereasp4E/AtE3/L4KokPCBJU1gZ2SpGJkVk26IfZ+y9p6LnQ 9muV/sLcYee0kU0e15N8vduc/cWYmWRZ4pfw5U8xoIj+I/FptN2drDJF3Vpw+GA8 07VOuUL37v0eyA/+VEzZBT3iMTPsEhNk/7RQobn3Q4+t4ZqBCECwVCEObzY21Oe/ 6PfdbbJbKqg3+QoF26+961TwuZ6T+WauJbCyN4iTI0oho9jzFMj3PaCrXweyFEsD fXerVebQCKxswQo6e+iKQASsENDh6ju2fuhcBr0U0QGscgOC/u4ed6m3SPaizpvH LLQTrIzv9iALeq31wpm82BT2AbHG3WchNpgnmtkC9BsOjh0eGukTEvaw1XBsmwif dd1xcdfGFTn2SbTUdCYnNWRiTbxZvtxNTw/u8Q9iLjgNIvxUMmY= =073F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jxJ9cGscdKF6mcQ7--