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From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: security@ariard.me,
	"lightning-dev\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
	<lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Full Disclosure: CVE-2023-40231 / CVE-2023-40232 / CVE-2023-40233 / CVE-2023-40234 "All your mempool are belong to us"
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 10:31:03 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZTJW59wQ/4WLZt2h@petertodd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <64VpLnXQLbeoc895Z9aR7C1CfH6IFxPFDrk0om-md1eqvdMczLSnhwH29T6EWCXgiGQiRqQnAYsezbvNvoPCdcfvCvp__Y8BA1ow5UwY2yQ=@protonmail.com>

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On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 10:34:04AM +0000, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Good morning Antoine et al.,
> 
> Let me try to rephrase the core of the attack.
> 
> There exists these nodes on the LN (letters `A`, `B`, and `C` are nodes, `==` are channels):
> 
>     A ===== B ===== C
> 
> `A` routes `A->B->C`.
> 
> The timelocks, for example, could be:
> 
>    A->B timeelock = 144
>    B->C timelock = 100
> 
> The above satisfies the LN BOLT requirements, as long as `B` has a `cltv_expiry_delta` of 44 or lower.
> 
> After `B` forwards the HTLC `B->C`, C suddenly goes offline, and all the signed transactions --- commitment transaction and HTLC-timeout transactions --- are "stuck" at the feerate at the time.
>
> At block height 100, `B` notices the `B->C` HTLC timelock is expired without `C` having claimed it, so `B` forces the `B====C` channel onchain.
> However, onchain feerates have risen and the commitment transaction and HTLC-timeout transaction do not confirm.

The problem here is we're failing to use RBF.

As I have suggested before, the correct way to do pre-signed transactions is to
pre-sign enough *different* transactions to cover all reasonable needs for
bumping fees. Even if you just increase the fee by 2x each time, pre-signing 10
different replacement transactions covers a fee range of 1024x. And you
obviously can improve on this by increasing the multiplier towards the end of
the range.

Increasing per-tx (temporary) storage and bandwidth costs by ~10x or even ~100x
is not a big deal in the context of a highly scalable protocol like Lightning.

There is zero reason why the B->C transactions should be getting stuck. This is
a major failing of the Lightning protocol that should be fixed. And of course,
this fix should be applied to other aspects of the lightning protocol, such as
channel opens, etc.

-- 
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-10-20 10:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-10-16 16:57 [bitcoin-dev] Full Disclosure: CVE-2023-40231 / CVE-2023-40232 / CVE-2023-40233 / CVE-2023-40234 "All your mempool are belong to us" Antoine Riard
2023-10-16 19:13 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-16 22:10   ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-17  1:11   ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-20 10:47     ` Peter Todd
2023-10-20 11:18       ` Jochen Hoenicke
2023-10-16 22:51 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun
2023-10-17  7:21 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ziggie1984
2023-10-17 10:34   ` ZmnSCPxj
2023-10-17 18:34     ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-20 10:31     ` Peter Todd [this message]
2023-10-20 11:03       ` Peter Todd
2023-10-20 18:35         ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-20 21:05           ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-21  0:15             ` Peter Todd
2023-10-21  1:03               ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-21  1:25                 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-21  1:55                   ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-21  2:43                     ` Peter Todd
2023-10-23 16:09                       ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-17 17:47   ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-17 18:47     ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-18  0:17 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-18  2:57   ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19  8:12     ` Bastien TEINTURIER
2023-10-19 16:23   ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-19 17:22     ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19 17:53       ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-19 19:33         ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-21  0:18           ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun
2023-11-17 22:36             ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19 18:02     ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-20  6:56 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2023-10-21 20:05   ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-27  0:43     ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02  4:46     ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-21  0:09 ` [bitcoin-dev] OP_Expire and Coinbase-Like Behavior: Making HTLCs Safer by Letting Transactions Expire Safely Peter Todd
2023-10-21  8:58   ` David A. Harding
2023-10-21 10:31     ` Peter Todd
2023-10-22  8:30   ` vjudeu
2023-10-23 11:10   ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2023-10-23 15:45     ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02  5:24   ` [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2023-11-02  6:26     ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02 17:07       ` Matt Morehouse
2023-11-03  5:27         ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-03  5:25       ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-04  7:26         ` Peter Todd
2023-11-06 18:45           ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-07 11:11             ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2023-11-07 15:44               ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-08  0:51             ` [bitcoin-dev] " Peter Todd
2023-11-08  2:06               ` Peter Todd
2023-11-13  2:18                 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-14 19:50                   ` Peter Todd
     [not found]                     ` <CALZpt+H38cU9L8kq0mSYCDirzL39fxhdoz4pAPiS8dGJP8akKg@mail.gmail.com>
2023-11-15 17:53                       ` [bitcoin-dev] Fwd: " Antoine Riard
2023-10-22  4:49 ` [bitcoin-dev] Full Disclosure: CVE-2023-40231 / CVE-2023-40232 / CVE-2023-40233 / CVE-2023-40234 "All your mempool are belong to us" Nadav Ivgi
2023-10-23  8:49   ` David A. Harding
2023-10-21 14:21 [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " Nagaev Boris

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